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My Adventures in French (TAC15) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5383 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 25 of 163 22 January 2014 at 2:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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Where someone would be offended for using "tu" would be if you are addressing a service
employee (or the other way around) and usually teacher-student relations use "vous" unless specified otherwise (like the "cool" prof that asks to be addressed by his/her first name). The tutor I just met up with at the Alliance Française used "vous" with me during the whole session. It seems most dicey in office places and there they may state the office preference up front (at my internship at the French Consulate everyone used "tu" and told new interns at their orientations to do so but it felt odd to me). As an au pair in a family in Neuilly-sur-Seine, the mother of the family and I always used "vous" (I was told by someone else that it wasn't so much to create distance but to show proper respect to "the staff"). I used "tu" with the kids but au pairs in other families had other experiences. There's a scene in "Bienvenue Chez les Ch'tis" where the new post office director arrives and is greeted and led to his quarters by one of the employees (Dany Boon). While saying goodnight the employee, who has been treating him like a long lost buddy, uses "tu" and the director replies with "vous" in a clear attempt to insist on guarding his distance and the employee is visibly shaken. For men trying to pick up women it seems like most will use "tu" but the odd one here or there will use "vous" (though it's often not the issue of "tutoiement" vs "vouvoiement" that can make someone offended in those interactions). And finally, yes between peers in a non-professional setting and online, "tu" is usually the preferred form. Though as a learner, you're more than welcome to ask up front (some French teachers/tutors prefer to have their students practice with "vous" to avoid inappropriate "tutoiement"). I've also found it pretty interesting that one generally uses "Tu" to address God.
Edited by sctroyenne on 22 January 2014 at 2:05am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| jhaberstro Senior Member United States Joined 4385 days ago 112 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 26 of 163 22 January 2014 at 4:26am | IP Logged | |||||
It's the same in English though. In the Bible, God is referred to as thou and thee which, although contemporary ears often misinterpret these as being formal, are actually English's old equivalents of French's tu and toi. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5383 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 27 of 163 22 January 2014 at 7:38am | IP Logged | |||||
Which I just thought of after posting - I remember being pretty surprised when I learned that thou and thee were actually English's defunct informal forms of you. It's quite a tangent but it'd be interesting to know why the informal forms were/are used. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4282 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 28 of 163 22 January 2014 at 8:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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It might sound odd, but the informal pronouns are used for the highest registers quite
often, especially in the Bible, both in older English and the Romance languages. In Spanish, God is addressed with «tú», and anything addressed to a group of people is «vosotros», same with Portuguese using «tu» and «vós» in the exact same manner. I suppose that the familiar forms served two purposes, to be used in informal situations, as well as addressing religious figures, which is rather counterintuitive. If I remember correctly, the formal form of "þou" in English was "you", and the plural being "ye". So, in French, one would address the boss at work as «vous», but if one goes to a church, the Lord's Prayer or the Hail Mary both use «tu» for God and the Virgin Mary. Addressing two or more religious figures would be no problem in French, since «vous» covers both formal and informal. In Spanish and Portuguese, addressing religious figures would use «vosotros» and «vós», respectively. Notre Père It shows that also in Latin, the familiar form is used: Notre Père, qui es aux Cieux, Que ton nom soit sanctifié... Pater noster, qui es in caelis, Sanctificetur nomen tuum... Edited by 1e4e6 on 22 January 2014 at 9:04am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4350 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 29 of 163 22 January 2014 at 9:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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Mohave, would you be interested in some creole? I know that french is bad enough to have to learn, however if you are interested, FSI has a course.
There are several creole languages, but it seems they are very close in that part of the world. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5468 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 30 of 163 22 January 2014 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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my thinking when it comes to the Bible and familiar forms is that all languages where the option is available
between a formal or familiar form are all highly likely to be the same form (familiar, as pointed out already) across the various languages due to the fact that pretty much all Bible versions are translations from one original version in one language. Dare I suggest it was originally Latin and the familiar form was used in the above mentioned contexts? Therefore all translations are likely to remain the same imo. I know very little about the Bible, just seems this pattern across various languages would stem from one source 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mohave Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Mohave1 Joined 3999 days ago 291 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 31 of 163 23 January 2014 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What an interesting discussion! Thanks sctroyenne for the GREAT explanation , and jhaberstro,
PeterMollenburg, 1e4e6 for the additional info on this topic! @renaisancemedi - I would learn to learn creole!!! In fact, Papiemento is on my to-do-list, as is Spanish. I have wanderlust so bad!!! I am afraid if I start learning other languages now, I won't learn French to a sufficient level!!! So I have given myself until this fall before I add in another language..... ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mohave Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Mohave1 Joined 3999 days ago 291 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 32 of 163 05 February 2014 at 2:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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Here is a quick January update
French Without Toil - Passive: completed thru lesson 115; Active: completed thru lesson 59 French in Action - Completed through Lesson 21 Language exchanges - completed 13 Skype sessions with 30 minutes in French - several email exchanges each week with language exchange partners and emails for business/travel arrangements Movies/series - Finished Engrenages season 4 (English subtitles) - l'Amour (English subtitles) - Les Parent (two episodes with French subtitles) - Le Placard (English subtitles) Restarted Pimsleur I - thru lesson 6 Podcasts I listened to hours and hours of podcasts/live radio using TuneIn Radio App, but I didn't keep track of the content or hours. I will try to capture this next month. Content wise: I listen to RFI Français en Facile, One Thing in a French Day, C'est La Vie Word of the Week, Français Authentique, and Le Téléphone Sonne, and for live radio, Montréal 98.5, and FranceInter. February Goals 1) French Without Toil - complete the passive wave of FWT and daily active wave lessons. I have enjoyed FWT, but I am excited that the end (for the passive wave) is in sight! 2) Complete 8 Skype sessions (this will be a stretch for me to do with my and my language partners' schedules). 3) Complete Pimsleur I through lesson 21 4) Watch 8 hrs of Film or TV series in French 5) Determine the next lesson material after FWT passive wave. I am considering Assimil Using French, Living Language Beyond the Basics, or FSI Phonetics. Would appreciate any thoughts, comments, or suggestions. 6) Track study hours Edited by Mohave on 05 February 2014 at 11:20am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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