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Thinking of giving up entirely. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Tyrion101 Senior Member United States Joined 3903 days ago 153 posts - 174 votes  Speaks: French | Message 1 of 24 17 November 2014 at 7:39pm | IP Logged |
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I've spent since February with French, and the 4 or 5 times I've had an opportunity to use it online 2 of them people used Google translate and responded to me in English, the others went ok, but the going is so slow for me to come up with the proper words to use, and half the time I'm still corrected by people, some aren't entirely convinced that I don't use Google translate myself. I do use it when I am unsure if I have not flipped words that shouldn't be, but other than that, it's a dictionary (I've got several) for unfamiliar words. I'm a very fast learner, and it appears that the only way I'll get any better is actually using it, but whats the point if people are just going to use Google translate to respond to me in English? I can't move to France or Quebec at present, and so I am stuck, and do not know what to do. I have no problem understanding what I am listening to on the radio, which is the only source of immersion that I have at present. Can I have some advice?
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| sillygoose1 Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4626 days ago 566 posts - 814 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: German, Latin | Message 2 of 24 17 November 2014 at 8:13pm | IP Logged |
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I think your best bet would be to read more. In fact, to me, every problem that you've written can be fixed with more reading. Coming up with proper words, not sure on which words to use/word order (that's what I got from you saying "flipping words"). After a few novels, you will have internalized a lot of grammar and vocab that will help you to write fluently.
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 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5522 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 24 17 November 2014 at 8:41pm | IP Logged |
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I'm sorry to hear that people have been treating you like that. :-(
My first recommendation is to keep working on your receptive skills. I feel this way with Spanish right now—I'm delighted to be learning it, but I'm in no hurry to speak it. And French offers you thousands of cool things to read, watch and listen to. For communicating with people, a few suggestions: - You can learn to write pretty well using lang-8 or iTalki's correction forums. - The community chat groups on Verbling are often pretty cool, even for upper level students. - It's definitely worth trying to find a language-exchange partner to Skype with. I'm not sure what site is best for this right now. - Most regions in the US have French Meetups where you can speak with people. It takes a little while to reach a level where you can have a real conversation, even with patient natives. I needed 2 weeks of half-time immersion before I felt semi-comfortable in French, and closer to 6 weeks of total speaking before it was pretty much second nature. In general, I find that French speakers have usually been quite happy to use French with me. That doesn't mean that everybody wants to let me practice, or whatever. But I've almost always been able to find people who are either nice enough to humor me, or lazy enough to prefer French over English. :-) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4089 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 4 of 24 17 November 2014 at 8:58pm | IP Logged |
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On the one hand, I'd say make opportunities for yourself to use the language online. Too painful to read through entire blog or forum posts and commenting at this point? Join a Facebook group or start interacting with people on Twitter or Flickr or some other type of community that requires the shortest of attention spans. Sign up for one of the dozens of online penpal (language exchange) sites and get yourself a francophone penpal.
On the other hand, it's somewhat discouraging that people don't believe that you are really a learner making an effort or that they think it's useless to try to make themselves understood by you in French. I've never encountered anything remotely like that, no matter how bad my French (or Breton for that matter). That makes it seem like you're nowhere near being an independent speaker, so... For some tips that are actually at your level, perhaps you could actually describe your level. I have always found your posts incredibly confusing when it comes to your French. On the one hand, you were supposedly on the first level of fluency a couple of months ago and making such great progress that you wanted to start more languages, then you understand almost everything you hear, but then you don't understand the simplest speakers, then you "no problems" with the radio, but you must listen to the same clips over and over and over again to understand, and so on and so forth. It's all seemingly very contradictory. Have you done some type of French coursework? Which verb tenses do you have a handle on? Can you read a newspaper article? Can you read a book? Can you listen to a podcast and understand what's going on on your first listen? Can you ask for directions and understand them if someone responds? Can you follow a TV programme without French subtitles? With French subtitles? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Tyrion101 Senior Member United States Joined 3903 days ago 153 posts - 174 votes Speaks: French | Message 5 of 24 17 November 2014 at 9:24pm | IP Logged |
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I think a lot of my problems tend to come with confidence. Which varies wildly. I can read quite easily, most of the time, I've not found any tv programs. I've found a couple of movies to try out, and I have not an ounce of confidence when it comes to people. It's annoying to be able to understand someone, but not be able to come up with the proper words or word order when the time comes. There are some accents that I cannot understand no matter how many times I listen, the narrator for Amelie for example I just cannot comprehend. There was a point where I spent hours and hours a day memorizing words, and grammar, only to seem to go away when I actually try to use stuff I know I know. Earlier today I listened to a weather report with no problem, (Snowing, windy, and quite cold.) though I still have trouble occasionally with words that sound similar. I do admit to have trouble at times when I come across whole sections of words that I'd never seen before. Maybe I should just stick to passive comprehension only.
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| Mohave Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Mohave1 Joined 3997 days ago 291 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 6 of 24 17 November 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged |
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I'm also sorry to hear that you have been treated like that. I'm also learning French and here are some things
that have worked for me. 1 I Skype with native Francophones several times a week. This has been the single best thing I have done to help my speaking skills. I found my partners at mylanguageexchange.com - I focused on finding partners near my age and having similar interests. I find that if I don't meet with them, it impacts my speaking skills 2 Super Challenge. I never, ever would have guessed the impact the Super Challenge has had on my French! My reading ability is much stronger,and my reading speed has increased. I still have lots of grammar to learn still, but things seem more intuitive now. My listening skills are stronger. I was not able to do regular course work for an extended period of time due to some family issues, and I only found time to read. Somehow my skills actually increased during this time, and my speaking skills did not decline nearly as much as I thought it would. There is still plenty of time left if you want to join in the fun - still a year left! Edited by Mohave on 18 November 2014 at 1:29pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5252 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 7 of 24 17 November 2014 at 9:58pm | IP Logged |
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I agree with eydimork- opportunities are made not found. You don't mention what kind of interaction you had online with these French-speakers, I'm assuming it was online chat with random native-speakers.
A more focused attempt to find someone at your level in English for a skype language exchange would be one option. You'll still most likely have to try several people before you find one who will suit you. One way to do this is to start posting on lang8 for correction of your French text and going above and beyond the call of duty to correct French-speakers' English- not just striking out words and giving the alternative but explaining why you are correcting the particular wording. Then, people will start looking for your texts and reciprocating with a similar effort. Eventually, after a few weeks or so of engaging with people on lang8 (giving useful corrections in English), you might suggest to one of these folks to meet on skype for a regular live language exchange. Writing short texts about everyday topics on lang8 isn't the same as speaking but it forces you to come up with something coherent It won't happen overnight. You're going to have to work at it to make it happen. That's one of the reasons why, in order to be active in a language in all aspects, you're going to have to work at it and accept that things aren't always going to go smoothly. Alternatively, you can search the usual language exchange sites for someone or even here. I remember a French-speaker posted here a few weeks ago asking for an exchange. Just like driving a car, you don't become a Formula 1 driver after you've finished reading the driver's manual. Your first attempts at chat and speaking will be full of errors and imperfection. This is normal and expected. That's why it's important to find someone at a similar level in English so each of you will have more of an incentive to help each other. You should probably think about filling out your profile here on the forum- you know "Studies: French", "Speaks: English". You can add further detail to your profile by adding some of your skills in the language(s) you study. One of the things I do is to click on a poster's profile in order to get an idea of where they are with a language so I may be better able to help. Edit: posted before I read your last post and Mohave's excellent post. Edited by iguanamon on 17 November 2014 at 10:02pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6051 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 8 of 24 17 November 2014 at 11:46pm | IP Logged |
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I won't say I'm sorry to hear that people are treating you like that. Neither should you.
Allow me to explain: if it was just an isolated case, it could be rudeness. But several? Hmmm... looks fishy. Maybe you should try to see what that means. Somehow, there seems to exist a discrepancy between your reading skills and other ones, like listening comprehension and production. Your profile is not enlightening (as iguanamon has pointed out). I'm just going to say that if French is your first attempt at learning a foreign language (is it?), then you're not doing bad (you say you started in February). Have a little patience. There is a number of pen pal sites you can use to find partners. I've used interpals in the past. I'm not a big fan, but a positive thing is that there are so many people you don't feel bad if you want to leave. In the mean time, try to be more objective when evaluating your skills. Things like "with French my passive skills are nearly fluent" and "if its a podcast I have to listen to the same one over and over again to get how this person says things" are not really compatible, are they? And they come from the same post. EDIT: On a second read, this may come across as a bit harsh. It was not my intention, so I won't delete any of it. I believe it's most helpful when someone points out a different angle. Edited by Luso on 17 November 2014 at 11:56pm 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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