How Long To Read Italian? (Books, Literature & Reading) Language Learning Forum

How Long To Read Italian?
Tags: e-book \| Literature \| Italian \| Book
Language Learning Forum : Books, Literature & Reading

11 messages over 2 pages: 1 2 Next >>

vexx
Groupie
Australia
Joined 5209 days ago
81 posts - 82 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Latin

Message 1 of 11

21 August 2010 at 4:37am | IP Logged

Hi,

I will be doing intensive study from mid november onwards, and so i'll be trying to fininish MT and Assimil
courses over 2-3 months then (from scratch), and possibly some pimsleur on the side. After completing, or any
time during this, how long will it take me to learn to read the book "Le avventure d’Alice nel paese delle
meraviglie" (Alice in Wonderland in Italian)?

This appears like a fun thing to read in Italian, so i really want to. Will i be able to after finishing these courses?
How do i learn to read Italian books if otherwise?

Oh and here is the e-book for it, for anyone that wants to see the level of Italian
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28371/28371-h/28371-h.htm
A sample from the first line, but it may get harder:
Alice cominciava a sentirsi mortalmente stanca di sedere sul poggio, accanto a sua sorella, senza far nulla: una
o due volte aveva gittato lo sguardo sul libro che leggeva sua sorella, ma[2] non c'erano imagini nè dialoghi, "e a
che serve un libro," pensò Alice, "senza imagini e dialoghi?"

Other than this, what level of reading Italian will i have acquired after successfully finishing MT+Assimil?
(example books are fine to post!)

Thank you

Vexx

Edited by vexx on 21 August 2010 at 4:40am
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minus273
Triglot
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France
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Speaks: Mandarin*, English^C2, French
Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan

Message 2 of 11

21 August 2010 at 4:49am | IP Logged

It's quite simple. More sweet will it be if you have a little audiobook at your disposition.
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vexx
Groupie
Australia
Joined 5209 days ago
81 posts - 82 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Latin

Message 3 of 11

21 August 2010 at 8:31am | IP Logged

minus273 wrote:

It's quite simple.

Elaborate please?
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Emme
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Italy
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Speaks: Italian*, English, German
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Message 4 of 11

21 August 2010 at 4:05pm | IP Logged

vexx wrote:

Oh and here is the e-book for it, for anyone that wants to see the level of Italian
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28371/28371-h/28371-h.htm

I’ve had a look at the "Le avventure d’Alice nel paese delle meraviglie" ebook you linked above and I must confess that I wouldn’t advise anyone to read that as one of their first novels in Italian.

The problem is not that ‘Alice in Wonderland’ is a particularly difficult book, but that the translation in question dates back to the 1870s. Italian has changed a lot in the past century and a half, so the language you find there is really outdated. A native speaker would find it quaint or just plain annoying (depending on his/her mood) having to read such an old translation, but I’m not so sure how a learner would fare, especially someone who’s been studying Italian for just a few months.

You would probably prefer to hear the opinion of other Italian learners, who might have tackled the same difficulties before you, because as a native speaker I may overestimate the problems you may encounter, but generally I would advise against using old literature until one is quite proficient. I am aware that this means it’s almost impossible to find free materials online (as novels out of copyright are generally at least 70 years old—I’m no lawyer, so take that number with a pinch of salt), but perhaps you may have more luck at your local library or at your school/university one. They may have more recent works in Italian that you can borrow.

Anyway, good luck with your Italian studies.

Just so you can have an idea of how frequent the ‘quaint’ parts in ‘Alice’ are, I’ll copy the first paragraphs: in bold you can see what words or phrases sound old/weird/unusual/hardly grammatical to a native speaker (and that most likely are nowhere to be found in recent translations).

Quote:

Alice cominciava a sentirsi mortalmente stanca di sedere sul poggio, accanto a sua sorella, senza far nulla: una o due volte aveva gittato lo sguardo sul libro che leggeva sua sorella, ma[2] non c'erano imagini nè dialoghi, "e a che serve un libro," pensò Alice, "senza imagini e dialoghi?"
E andava fantasticando col suo cervello (come meglio poteva, perchè lo stellone l'avea resa sonnacchiosa e grullina), se il piacere di fare una ghirlanda di margherite valesse la noja di levarsi su, e cogliere i fiori, quand'ecco un Coniglio bianco con gli occhi di rubino le passò da vicino.
Davvero non c'era troppo da meravigliarsi di ciò, nè Alice pensò che fosse cosa troppo stravagante di sentire parlare il Coniglio, il quale diceva fra sè "Oimè! Oimèi! ho fatto tardi!" (quando se lo rammentò in seguito s'accorse che avrebbe dovuto meravigliarsene, ma allora le sembrò una cosa assai naturale): ma quando il Coniglio trasse un oriuolo dal taschino del panciotto, e vi affisò gli occhi, e scappò via, Alice saltò in piedi, perchè l'era venuto in mente ch'ella non avea mai veduto un Coniglio col panciotto e il suo rispettivo taschino, nè con un oriuolo da starvici dentro, e divorata dalla curiosità, traversò il campo[3] correndogli appresso, e giunse proprio a tempo di vederlo slanciarsi in una spaziosa conigliera, di sotto alla siepe.
In un altro istante, giù Alice scivolò, correndogli appresso, senza punto riflettere come mai avrebbe fatto per riuscirne fuori.
La buca della conigliera sfilava diritto come una galleria di tunnel, e poi s'inabissava tanto rapidamente che Alice non ebbe un solo istante per considerare se avesse potuto fermarsi, poichè si sentiva cader giù rotoloni in qualche precipizio che rassomigliava a un pozzo profondissimo.
Una delle due, o il pozzo era arci-profondo, o ella vi ruzzolava assai adagino, poichè ebbe tempo, mentre cadeva, di guardare tutto intorno, e stupiva pensando a ciò che le avverrebbe poi. Prima di tutto aguzzò la vista e cercò di vedere nel fondo per scoprire ciò che le accaderebbe, ma gli era bujo affatto e non ci si vedea punto: indi guardò alle pareti del pozzo ed osservò ch'erano ricoperte di credenze e di scaffali da libri; quà e là vide mappe e quadri che pendeano [4] da' chiodi. Andando giù prese di volo un vasettino che aveva un cartello, lo lesse: "CONSERVA D'ARANCE," ma oimè! era vuoto e restò delusa: non volle lasciar cadere il vasettino per non ammazzare chi era in fondo, e andando sempre giù lo depose in un'altra credenza.
"Bene," pensò Alice, "dopo una caduta tale, mi parrà proprio un niente il ruzzolare per le scale! A casa poi, come mi crederanno coraggiosa! D'ora innanzi, ancorchè cadessi dal tetto, non ne farei caso!" (E probabilmente dicea la verità.)

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vexx
Groupie
Australia
Joined 5209 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Latin

Message 5 of 11

21 August 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged

^ Thank you Emme!
Wow that's a lot of weird words, perhaps i should have searched properly.

Which is what i did! There are a few other versions, this apparently is 1993,

http://books.google.com/books?
id=xH3AQhfbF3MC&pg=PA153&dq=Le+avventure+di+Alice+nel+paese+ delle+meraviglie+1993&hl=en&ei=3-
pvTIndFJG2vQPlqJ20Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1& ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA

edit, there are some serious copy+paste issues, so you'll have to backspace the gaps such as the one at the
end.

Interesting to see it has the English Translation on one side of the page, but regardless, is this edition more
suitable? Could i read this, or is it still at a level i should wait..

Or is it better to find one with pure Italian?

Edited by vexx on 21 August 2010 at 5:04pm
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Emme
Triglot
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Italy
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Speaks: Italian*, English, German
Studies: Russian, Swedish, French

Message 6 of 11

21 August 2010 at 5:19pm | IP Logged

vexx wrote:

[...] There are a few other versions, this apparently is 1993, [...]

Yes, this edition is much better: the Italian used is much more up-to-date. Having English and Italian on opposite sides might help you if there’s a point you can’t understand on your own. Just keep in mind, though, that the translation is not always very literal. Actually I’ve seen a couple of places where the translation was quite distant from the original text in order to maintain the same register and to convey the right meaning.

The most egregious example is this:
p. 14 “Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be too late!”
p. 15 ‘Oh cielo! Che ritardo! Siamo già nel Terzo Millennio!” (lit.: Oh heavens, how late it is! We’re already in the Third Millennium!’

Edited by Emme on 21 August 2010 at 5:23pm
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vexx
Groupie
Australia
Joined 5209 days ago
81 posts - 82 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Latin

Message 7 of 11

21 August 2010 at 6:32pm | IP Logged

Oh wow that's very different, guess the English isn't too important then, having a dictionary will be fine..
So is this a good 'first book' to read after MT+Assimil? Or should i stick with something else?
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draoicht
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Ireland
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 8 of 11

21 August 2010 at 7:42pm | IP Logged

MarcoDiAngelos website has a dualtext version of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland and a link to download the audiobook in Italian. Link

Have a look at the rest of Marcos website, he has sections on listening-reading and how to use dualtext books and audio.

Edited by draoicht on 21 August 2010 at 7:46pm

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