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Tags: Using Foreign Languages | Living Language | Catalan | Romance Languages | Latin | Russian | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| embici Triglot Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4602 days ago 263 posts - 370 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Greek | Message 17 of 109 11 July 2013 at 8:41pm | IP Logged |
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Have you used any materials to learn some Romansh or did you find it somewhat transparent given your knowledge of other romance languages?
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| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 18 of 109 15 July 2013 at 6:12pm | IP Logged |
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Embici, I started learning Romansh when I was at University and my Italian professor proposed a special course for me - he was a Romansh enthusiast. I did have a manual, called Rumantsch Sursilvan, by Theo Candinas, from 1982. It was monolingual, so we supplemented with a Sursilvan - German dictionary and a grammar written in French called "Manuel pratique de romanche" by Ricarda Liver, also from 1982. Then I also remember a book called "Bien di, bien onn", from the early 1930s. It was rather peculiar because the grammar explanations etc. were written in German in Gothic script! Unfortunately I have lost my copy of that one.
We did move on to "real texts" pretty quickly though, for that obviously my knowledge of other Romance languages was a real advantage. Today you can find material for learning Romansh a lot more easily than when I started back in the 1980s (i.e. the "stone age" before internet existed). The Lia Rumantscha has a good internet bookshop and they deliver relatively quickly (at least in Europe). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 19 of 109 31 July 2013 at 11:50am | IP Logged |
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Je viens de commencer à lire le roman « Les gens heureux lisent et boivent du café », d’Agnès Martin-Lugand. Ce bouquin est encore un exemple de comment aujourd’hui un écrivain inconnu peut connaître le succès par l’autopublication sur Amazon ou autres plates-formes similaires. Dans quelques semaines, ce roman est monté jusqu’à la première place de la liste des livres les plus vendus chez Amazon.fr.
Il est intéressant comment les nouvelles technologies ont un impact sur la littérature, et pas seulement en ce qui concerne la manière d’acheter et de lire des livres, mais aussi sur comment publier. Le pouvoir des grandes maisons éditoriales se réduit, aujourd’hui n’importe qui peut publier un livre sur Amazon, et avec un bon plan de marketing et en utilisant les réseaux sociaux on peut se faire connaître. Le cas le plus célèbre est sans doute celui de « Fifty shades of Gray », mais il y en a d’autres aussi, par exemple « Berlin Gothic » de Jonas Winner en Allemagne. Puis, il y a certainement beaucoup de livres publiés de cette manière qui ne seront jamais des « best-sellers ». En ce qui concerne la qualité des livres d’autopublication, il y en a certainement de tout. Les commentaires sur le page de « Les gens heureux…. » sont très variés, pour certains c’est un livre magnifique, pour d’autres c’est un simple roman à l’eau de rose sans qualités littéraires. Comme je viens de le commencer, je ne peux pas encore donner mon opinion, mais pour l’instant le livre me plaît, et je trouve qu’il est bien écrit, c’est un français facile à lire et à suivre. (I have just started reading « Les gens heureux lisent et boivent du café », a French novel which is another good example of how an unknown author can become famous overnight thanks to autopublishing on Amazon or a similar platform. Agnès Martin-Lugand published this novel on Amazon and within a few weeks it was the number one bestseller. It is interesting how new technologies change the way literature is read, but even more how it changes the way books are published. The publishing houses are losing influence, as today anyone can be their own publisher. And with a smart marketing plan and active use of social networks, you can make yourself known. Everyone knows the case of “Fifty shades of Gray”, but there are other examples, like “Berlin Gothic” by Jonas Winner in Germany. The quality of autopublished books will certainly vary, some are good, others are bad. If you look at the commentaries on the Amazon page of “Les gens heureux…”, they are very varied, some praise the book, others think it is just another sentimental novel without any literary qualities. Personally I cannot say yet, as I have only read a few pages, but for the moment I like it, it seems to be well written, in a French that is easy to read.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 20 of 109 27 August 2013 at 4:16pm | IP Logged |
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I am back after nearly a month’s absence. I’ve been on holidays and decided to stay offline, spending my time reading, studying languages and enjoying life generally. Actually the three weeks were quite hectic, the first was spent in Norway visiting family and friends. Then we went on a “road trip” through France, first to Biarritz, then three days in San Sebastian in Spain and then a final week near Cassis on the French Mediterranean coast.
The visit to San Sebastian was quite interesting – apart from the fact that the city itself is certainly worth a visit, and the food is fantastic, it was an occasion to hear the Basque language, euskara, spoken. The language is very much present everywhere, although according to statistics, only about a third of the population of the Basque Country speaks it. However, in the small village just outside of the city where our hotel was, almost all signage was exclusively in euskara. I visited a couple of book shops in San Sebastian, looking for language material in euskara. Although it is not on my list of languages to learn for the moment, I could not resist the temptation to get hold of a book or two. In the end, I only bought a small conversation guide called “Kaixo! Manual de conversación castellano-euskara”. It gives you some basic grammar, the typical lists of useful phrases arranged by topic and a fairly decent vocabulary list. As a brief introduction to the language it is fine, although I would have liked to see a more detailed explanation of grammar. (By the way the book also exists in English and French versions.) For the more serious student of euskara the series “bakarka” seemed quite good. It is a course for self-learning consisting of five books, the first three come with CDs and are supposed to bring you to an A2 level. If ever I decide to take up euskara I will certainly consider this course (it should be possible to get from Amazon). La dernière semaine des vacances nous sommes allés à Cassis, ou nous avons simplement fait comme les autres « aoûtiens » : on est allé à la plage, on s’est baigné dans la mer, on a bien mangé et on a goûté les vins du terroir. Les vins blancs de Cassis, ainsi que les rosés de la Provence en général, accompagnent très bien la gastronomie locale. J'ai bien sûr profité pour beaucoup étudier, et je me suis centré sur le russe. J’ai été frappé par le fait que presque tous les villages et toutes les villes en Provence sont signalés avec deux noms, en français et en provençal. Donc, Aix-en-Provence s’appelle aussi Ais de Prouvènço. Par contre, je n’ai entendu personne parler en provençal pendant la semaine que j’y ai été. J'ai eu du mal à trouver des chiffres précises sur le nombre de personnes qui parlent le provençal, elles varient entre 100 000 et 500 000, mais c'est clair que c'est une langue en péril de disparaître. P.S. J’ai finalisé le roman dont j’ai parlé dans le message précédent. À vrai dire, je l’ai trouvé un peu médiocre ; l’histoire, qui commence bien, devient un peu banale et superficielle après quelques pages, et le style un peu monotone. Conclusion: Il faut se méfier des "best-sellers". 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 21 of 109 12 September 2013 at 5:41pm | IP Logged |
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Questa è la prima volta in molti anni che scrivo in Italiano, dunque m’immagino che farò degli errori. L’italiano è una lengua che parlavo assai bene dieci anni fa, ma mi sono reso conto che il mio livello d’italiano è molto bassato, e adesso voglio fare uno sforzo per migliorare. Tuttavia non posso dedicare molto tempo all’italiano, così soprattutto leggerò libri e giornali in Italiano per “rianimare” il vocabolario dimenticato. Ho cominciato a leggere “Danubio”, che fu scritto da Claudio Magris nell’anno 1986. L’ho letto venti anni fa in norvegese, e mi è molto piaciuto: racconta il viaggio dell’autore attraverso Europa in compagnia d’amici, ma non solamente descrive i differenti luoghi, il libro è pieno di riflessioni su differenti temi quali la letteratura, la geografia, la storia d’Europa e il legame tra lingua e collocazione politica. Molte cose hanno cambiato in Europa dal 1986, ma nonostante si può apprendere molto da questo libro.
(This is my first attempt at writing Italian for many many years, so it is not very fluent I’m afraid. My Italian was quite good some ten years ago, but now I need to do something to brush it up. For lack of time it will mostly be reading, mainly to reactivate vocabulary that is buried somewhere in the brain. For this I am reading the book “Danube” by Claudio Magris. Although it dates from 1986, or perhaps because of that, it is very interesting to read it again (first time was 20 years ago in Norwegian translation). It is a very different kind of travel guide, with the author’s reflections around literature, geography, history and relationship between language, nationalism and politics.) My recurring problem can be summarised like this: "Too many languages, too little time". I would love to keep all my languages at a decent level all the time, but I just cannot find enough time in the day to study Russian and Greek and at the same time maintain my German, Italian, Catalan, Romansh and Latin. I do try at least to read something in all the languages every week (and I practise German more than the others because I go to Germany quite often), but I do not think I really make much progress on that basis. My main priority right now is Russian, but I do need to spend some time on these other languages as well. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 22 of 109 03 October 2013 at 3:10pm | IP Logged |
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Salü bisàmme!
That is “Hello everyone” in Alsatian. I actually have a confession to make. As a language nerd, I am rather ashamed of the fact that I have lived in Alsace for more than five years and not really paid much attention to the local language. I do not intend to learn to speak Alsatian, at least for the moment, but I want to know more about it, and understand where it differs from standard German. Although a minority language, it is still spoken by about 600.000 people in Alsace, so a significant minority, and in many villages it is still the preferred vernacular. For someone who wants to study the languages on their own without attending courses, there are obstacles however. It is hard to find good learning material. I searched in a couple of the major bookstores in Strasbourg, but with a meagre result. Apart from “L’alsacien pour les nuls” and “L’alsacien de poche (Assimil), the only decent book I found was “ Wie geht’s – apprenons l’alsacien” (ed. La Nuée Bleue). None of these books is really a language course, they are more like expanded phrase books with some simplified grammar explanations. I have yet to see a comprehensive grammar of the language. With regard to other resources, there are a number of authors who write books in Alsatian, you can also find comics and children’s books in the language. The local newspaper “Dernières Nouvelles d’Alsace” has one or two weekly columns in Alsatian. And on TV and radio you can find the occasional programme in Alsatian, but overall it is pretty marginal in relation to French. If I compare it to the situation of Romansh in Switzerland (which has a much smaller number of speakers), it is sort of sad how weak its position is. Obviously, not having an official status doesn’t help. There is however an institution, “l’Office pour la Langue et la Culture d’Alsace (OLCA)” which works to promote the use of Alsatian. On their website (it is in French and German) there is a lot of interesting information, they also offer listening samples and small vocabulary lists, and they organise courses in Alsatian. Edit: Shortly after posting this, I found this link. It links to a children's book in Alsatian, "'s Mimi ùn de Leo gehn ìn d'Schuel". The really nice thing about it is that you can listen to the text and read it at the same time. Edited by Ogrim on 03 October 2013 at 3:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 23 of 109 04 October 2013 at 5:55pm | IP Logged |
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The entries in this blog might give the impression that I keep jumping from language to language every month or so without any continuity, but that is not the case. Anyway I thought I should shortly summarise what I've been doing during the month of September with regard to the languages I have talked about in earlier posts.
I will not bother with English, French or Spanish, as I use these languages on a daily basis for work and in the family. I also won't bother with Russian and Greece, as I have a TAC log for those. So that leaves me with: German: I have been to Germany maybe five times the last month, either for shopping or going to restaurants. This does not give a lot of talking practice, but better than nothing. And I have finished Berlin Gothic 5 and started on Berlin Gothic 6. In addition I've maybe spent a total of 10 hours or so with German TV and radio, and read quite a lot of articles online (Der Spiegel, Die Welt, Frankfurter Allgemeine etc.) Italian: I've continued with Il Danubio, but at a slow pace, about 100 pages in so far. Read some articles online (La Repubblica) about Italian politics. Catalan: Not much apart from listening to Catalunya Informació (radio news channel) a few times a week and reading a few articles online in El Periódico de Catalunya. Romansh: Listened to three podcasts from Radioteleviziun Svizra Rumantscha, each lasts about 45 minutes, and read a few pages of a novel called Cara Laura. Latin: A couple of hours a week reading Ephemeris. As I do not pretend to study these languages for the time being, it is more about refreshing some of them and maintaining the others, so clearly most of what I do is rather relaxed and extensive rather than intensive. I also admit that it is a passive approach, maybe except for German, where I do speak and write German on ocassions. Anyway, thinking about what I've been doing over the last month I am rather satisfied that I am able to get something done in quite a number of languages. Although I sometimes think that I should devote 100% of my spare time to Russian and Greek, I would be "poorer" if I did not get my weekly dose of these other languages, and even a small dose is better than none. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 24 of 109 16 December 2013 at 4:03pm | IP Logged |
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Time to revive this log.
Romontsch sursilvan: In quest temps dil onn tscherchel jeu bugen buna musica da Nadal, e quest'emna hai jeu cattau ils Furbaz, ina gruppa fetg famusa nella Svizra. Ils Furbaz han participau al "Eurovision Song Contest" nel 1989 culla canzun "viver senza tei". Era l'emprema gada che la Svizra ei sepresentada cu ina canzun in romontsch. Ils Furbaz contan savens in romontsch, aber era in auters lungatgs. Jeu hai cumprau in disc da canzuns da Nadal, e ils contan in romontsch, tudestg, talian, franzos, spagnol, engles e latin. Jeu sai buca sch'ils tschontschan bein in tuts quels lungatgs, mo lur pronuzia cura che contan ei fetg biala. (At this time of year, I like to look for Christmas music, and I came across ils Furbaz, a group that is quite famous in Switzerland. They participated in the Eurosong contest in 1989, with the song "viver senza tei" (To live without you), and this was the first time that Switzerland was represented with a song in Romansh. As they are from Graubünden, they sing in Romansh, but also in other languages. At the Christmas CD I have bought, they sing in Romansh, German, Italian, French, Spanish, English and Latin. I don't know if the can speak all these languages well, but their pronunciation when they sing them is very good.) If you want to buy their music, the "usual giants" (you know who I mean) providing services through internet have a couple of CDs, including as mp3 to download. You can also order their CDs directly from ils Furbaz' own website, and there you can learn more abou them and listen to a few songs. You find it here (in German).. A final word: yes, it is pop, yes it might even seem kitsch to some, but when people sing in Romansh and six other languages I really don't care. And I think they are good - I enjoy the songs, the music, the languages and the various styles they mix into their particular Swiss style pop music. Edited by Ogrim on 16 December 2013 at 4:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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