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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 33 of 109 30 January 2014 at 5:32pm | IP Logged |
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German
Gestern habe ich das Buch Rätoromanisch – Eine Einführung in das Bündnerromanische erhalten, und darum bin ich ganz begeistert. Es ist ein ganz neues Buch, das ist, die zweite Auflage, die in 2010 erschienen ist. Das Buch ist von der Sprachwissenschaftlerin Ricarda Liver geschrieben. Das Buch ist nicht ein Sprachkurs, sondern, als der Titel sagt, eine Einführung in die Sprache sowohl als die Sprachsituation Graubündens. Das Buch gibt eine Übersicht über die Forschung zum Bündnerromanischen und diskutiert den Begriff Rätoromanisch, dann gibt es eine Übersicht über die Geschichte des Bündnerromanischen, eine Beschreibung der Einheitssprache Rumantsch Grischun, eine synchronische Beschreibung des Surselvischen und die Stellung des Bündnerromanischen in der Romania. Ich freue mich darauf, dieses Buch zu lesen, und noch mehr über das Bündnerromanischen zu lernen. Romontsch sursilvan Jeu hai cumprau in niev cudisch sin tudestg, che dat ina introducziun al lungatg romontsch. Il cudisch, scrit dalla linguista Ricarda Liver, tracta dalla historia dil romontsch, la relaziun dil romontsch culs auters lungatgs romanics, la situaziun dil romontsch oz e la posiziun dil lungatg unificau, rumantsch grischun. Ei dat aunc ina descripziun dil romontsch sursilvan. Jeu vegnel ad leger quei cudisch e jeu sperel emprender bia pli sur da quei bi lungatg che ei il romontsch. (I have received a book in German about Romansh which I am quite excited about. It is not a language course, but an introduction to the Romansh language written by a linguist, Ricarda Liver. It describes the history of the language, discusses the research into Romansh that has been done through history, the relationship between Romansh and other Romance languages and the current situation. It also gives an introduction into the unified standard language, Rumantsch Grischun, as well a detailed overview of Romontsch Sursilvan. I am really looking forward to reading it, I think I can learn a lot of new things about this fascinating language.) Edited by Ogrim on 30 January 2014 at 5:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 34 of 109 05 February 2014 at 5:29pm | IP Logged |
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Romontsch sursilvan:
Dalla Lia Rumantscha hai jeu cumprau il cudisch "Il temps dellas tschereschas" d’Ursicin G.G. Derungs. Quei cudisch ei la c**tinuaziun de "La petta de spigias", dil qual jeu hai tschontschau ina ga in quei diari. Igl ei ina autobiografia, nella quala igl autur raquinta sia veta primo sco alumn al gimansi della scola claustra de Mustér e student de teologia a Roma, e suenter sco prer benedictin e professer de teologia. Lu eisi extraus ord claustra, igl ei secasaus ed oz viva el a Milaun e lavura sco teolog e scribent. Jeu haiel bugen ils cudischs de Derungs. Il scriva in lungatg clar, pur ed elegant, ed ils temas son fetg interessonts. Miu cudisch romontsch favoriu ei "Il saltar dils morts", ina collecziun de novellas che Derungs ha scret in 1982, ma jeu quetel che quella secunda part della sua autobiografia seigi era fetg buna. (I ordered from Lia Rumantscha the book "Il temps dellas tschereschas" (the time of the cherries) by Ursicin G.G. Derungs. This is the continuation of the book "La petta de spigias", about which I have talked earlier in this log. It is an autobiography, and the author tells the story of his life, first as a pupil at the convent school in Mustér and a theology student in Rome, and then as a Benedictine priest and professor of theology. Later he left the convent and got married, and now he lives in Milan working as a theologian and a writer. I really like Derungs’ books. He writes in a very clear and elegant language, and the themes are always interesting. My favourite book in Romansh is "Il saltar dils Morts", a collection of short stories he published in 1982. I am pretty sure though that this second part of his autobiography will be very good.) Edited by Ogrim on 12 February 2014 at 2:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 35 of 109 12 February 2014 at 5:49pm | IP Logged |
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Wow, I see that the forum software's "bad word"-filter is very efficient. In my post above I wrote the Romansh word for continuation, and by chance the first four letters correspond to a dirty four-letter word in English, and now instead of a "u" and an "n" there are two stars! I guess the filter only applies to English (so one can freely swear in other languages), but that it censors part of words in other languages because of a coincidence like this is really amazing! As that particular letter combination appears from time to time in Romansh I assume that I might be censored in the future as well.
Romontsch sursilvan La davosa jamna hai jeu passentau bia temps cul romontsch. Ussa legel jeu "Il temps dellas tschereschas" d’Urcisin G.G. Derungs. Il cudisch ei fetg interessants, e jeu hai bia emprendiu da la veta in claustra nel onns 50 e 60 dal davos tschentaner. Derungs raquinta era la storia dalla "damonda dil da e dil de". Vidavon vevi il romontsch sursilvan duas preposiziuns, "de", per exprimer l'appartenenza (il genitiv) e "da" per exprimer la derivonza (il ablativ), sco il talian. Silla fin dils onns 50 seigi naschida la novaziun da metter ensemen las duas preposiziuns e scriver mo pli "da". Quella proposta hagi caussau in grond disput nella Surselva denter ils proponents ed ils adversaris dal "dadaissem". Ils dadaists vulessien ina simplificaziun dalla lengua, aber ils adversaris manegiassien ch’ei fuvi ina novaziun per influenza dil Engadines e perquei fuvi ei "protestanta"! Finalmein ha triunfau il "dadaissem" ed ussa la differenza denter "da" e "de" si fa buca pli. Quei ei, Derungs c**tinua a far la distinziun denter las duas preposiziuns. Buca perquei ch'il seigi protestants, mo perquei il patertga ch’ei seigi grammaticalmein pli logic. (I've spent a lot of time on Romansh lately. I am reading Derungs' book which is very interesting, I've learnt a lot about what life was like in a convent in the 50s and 60s of the last century. He also tells the story about the "de" and "da" question. Before, sursilvan had two prepositions, "de" to express possession (genitive) and "da" to express origin (ablative), a bit like Italian "di" and "da". However, at the end of the 1950s it was proposed to merge the two prepositions and use only "da". This proposal led to a big fight between those in favour and those against what came to be called the “Dadaism”. The Dadaists wanted a simplification and modernisation of the language, whilst the opponents thought this was a result of influence from vallader and puter (the Engadine dialects) and therefore protestant. In the end the "Dadaists" won and today nobody makes the difference between da e di, that is, except for Derungs, who continues to use both prepositions, not because he is a protestant (he is not), but because he thinks it is more logical from a grammatical point of view). It is interesting indeed to see how a small linguistic question like this one could become a major issue within the Surselva community – old friends almost became enemies because of two prepositions! However, I guess that precisely in a small language community that has to struggle for its survival, such questions take on a significance and engage people in a way that would hardly happen in a major world language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 36 of 109 13 February 2014 at 4:57pm | IP Logged |
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Nice to see some Romansh here!
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 37 of 109 13 February 2014 at 6:04pm | IP Logged |
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Engraziel fetg, Iversen. I am doing my best to activate my knowledge, not only passive reading, but I am bound to make mistakes when I write, and unfortunately I do not have natives to interact with. However, the more I read and learn about this language and the culture, the more it fascinates me. I'll try to find time soon to write a post about some of the peculiarities of Romansh, and in particular of Sursilvan, which is the dialect that differs most from the "mainstream" Romance languages both with regard to grammar and vocabulary.
Listening to Romansh on Radio Rumantsch has its challenges too, as you get a good mix of all the dialects plus the common standard Rumantsch Grischun. I am becoming used to distinguishing them, but I still understand a lot more of spoken Sursilvan than spoken Vallader or Surmiran. Another peculiarity of Radio Rumantsch is that in one and the same emission, e.g. the news, you get two or three Romansh dialects, Hochdeutsch, Swiss German and sometimes Italian. Graubünden is truly multilingual. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 38 of 109 21 February 2014 at 5:16pm | IP Logged |
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Français
Ce matin, j'ai lu dans mon journal local qu'aujourd'hui est "La journée internationale de la langue maternelle", et d'autre côté j'ai remarqué que l'Office pour la Langue et la Culture d'Alsace (OLCA - Elsassisches Sprochàmt) fête ses 20 ans d'existence. A cette occasion il y aure une série de manifestations et d'évenéments pour célébrer la langue alsacienne. Finalement l'Inspection Académique du Bas-Rhin a annoncé l'ouverture d'un grand nombre d'écoles bilingues (français-allemand) à partir de la prochaine année académique. Il y déjà pas mal d'écoles d'enseignement bilingue, mais il semble que l'Académie veut mainenant que ça soit une possibilité offerte à tous les niveaux depuis maternelle jusqu'au bac. Donc il se passe pas mal de choses relationnées avec les langues ici en Alsace. Español Por otra parte, la semana que viene voy con la familia a Fuertevenura, Islas Canarias. Ya empiezan las vacaciones de invierno, y mientras muchos franceses (y compañeros de otros países) se van a la montaña a esquiar, preferimos como siempre buscar el sol y el mar. Será una semana de relajación, de leer, estudiar lenguas, pasear por la playa y comer buen pescado. Furteventura es la isla más antigua del archipiélago desde el punto de vista geológico, y una de las más áridas, pero tiene unos parques naturales de gran belleza (eso dicen) y la capital, Puerto del Rosario, cuenta con un importante parque escultórico. Otro detalle interesante es que el escritor y filósofo Miguel de Unamuno fue desterrado a Fuerteventura por el dictador Primo de Rivera en 1924. (Above I make a reference to the fact that today is "Mother tongue Day", according to my local newspaper, and that the office for the promotion of Alsatian is celebrating 20 years. In addition, it has been decided to create a great number of bilingual (German-French) schools in Alsace from next school year. Furthermore I am going to Fuerteventura in the Canary Islands next week, as my kids have their Winter Holidyas from today.) Finally, I have been very busy at work over the last couple of weeks, so little time to dedicate to languages, but I am continuing my explorations into Romansh and reading Derungs' book as well as other texts. I have had great fun listening to Radio Romontsch's reports from the Winter Olympics in Sochi, where several of the Swiss medalists are Romansh speakers. Actually, had "Rumantschia" been participating as a country, they would have won more medals than Finland for example. For me it has also been a good practice in getting used to the Engadin dialects of Romansh, as most of the medalists come from this part of Grison, rather than from Surselva, which dialect is the one I have spent most time on. Edited by Ogrim on 21 February 2014 at 5:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 39 of 109 06 March 2014 at 5:14pm | IP Logged |
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Romontsch sursilvan
Da miezdi hai jeu tedlau sil Radio Romontsch l'emmiziun d’actualitads, ed ei dava ina intervista cun ina dunna dil Portugal che habitescha si Mustér in Surselva. Ella veva emprendiu in tec romontsch ed ussa studegia ella tudestg. La vischnaunca da Mustér offerescha cours da sursilvan e da tudestg per ils immigrants ch'arrivan sil vitg. La dunna ha explicau che per ella il tudestg seigi bia pli cumplicaus ch'il romontsch, ma quei seigi natural, perquei che il romontsch semegli al portugues. Dapi ha ina dunna ingleza tschontschau sin inglés, ella vevi anfalu lavur si Mustér ed ussa leva ella aunc emprender romontsch. Igl ei encuraschent ed enchurscheivel ch'ils jasters che van a viver in Surselva emprendien il lungatg e ch'ils selimiteschien buca al tudestg. Era hai jeu tedlau in'emmiziun dalla seria "Forum", il tema era "Il carstgaun – in animal che maglia". Il program ei staus presentaus per il pader Clau Lombriser, ed schegie ch'ei dava in aspect religius, ha el oravontut tschontschau dil magliar d'in pugn da vesta cultural ed historic. Jeu hai bunamein finiu da leger "Il temps dellas tschereschas" da Derungs. Il cudisch ei adina interessants. Derungs ei in carstgaun intelligent e sabi e jeu anflel ch'il raquinti seva veta cu gronda honestadad. Jeu hai bia bugen quella citaziun: "Jeu crei che glieud senza vezis seigi prigulusa: savens ein els prepotents ed arrogants e fan pagar ils auters ils cuosts de lur vertids". (At noon I listened to the news on Radio Romontsch, and there was an interview with a lady from Portugal who lives in Muster in Surselva. She had learnt some Romansh and now she was studying German. The local authorities offer languages courses in Sursilvan and German for all immigrants who settle there. The lady explained that she found German more difficult than Romansh, which was natural since Romansh has many things in common with Portuguese. Then an English lady spoke in English, she had found work in the village and now she also wanted to learn Romansh. It is indeed encouraging to see that foreigners who settle in the area want to learn the language, and do not limit themselves to German. I have then listened to a programme called "Man – an animal who eats". The presenter, Clau Lombriser, is a catholic priest, and although there was a religious aspect to the programme, he concentrated above all on eating from a historical and cultural point of view. I'm almost finished with the book by Derungs. It is still very interesting, Derungs is an intelligent and wise man and he tells about his life with great honesty. I really like this quote from his book: "I think that people without vice are dangerous: often they are ambitious and arrogant and make others pay for the cost of their virtues." 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 40 of 109 10 March 2014 at 3:36pm | IP Logged |
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Español
Estuve una semana de vacaciones en Fuerteventura. La isla tiene una historia muy interesante. Se supone que los primeros habitantes vinieron del norte de África, y también se sabe que la visitaron fenicios, griegos y romanos. En 1402, dos exploradores normandos, Jean de Bethencourt y Gadifer de la Salle, llegaron a la isla y fundaron la ciudad Betancuria, que fue la capital de la isla durante varios siglos hasta que fue sustituida como tal por Puerto del Rosario en 1860. Visité Betancuria, que ahora es una aldea tranquila que vive del turismo y de la venta de queso de cabra, producto principal de la isla. La primera aparición de la isla en un mapa se remonta al año 1339. Fue hecho por Angelino Dulcet y el nombre de la misma estaba escrito como “Forte Ventura”. Los expertos no se ponen de acuerdo sobre el significado del nombre. Está claro que “Forte” es “fuerte”, pero para “Ventura” hay varias teorías. ¿Significa fortuna, o felicidad, o viento? La última interpretación se entiende cuando visitas la isla, el viento siempre sopla, y a menudo con mucha intensidad, así que el nombre “Fuerteviento” también sería muy adecuado. También visité el museo de Unamuno en Puerto del Rosario. No es terriblemente interesante, pero sí lo es el hecho de que Unamuno fuera enviado a la isla por el dictador Primo de Rivera y al menos me inspiró para empezar a leer de nuevo su principal obra filosófica “El sentimiento trágico de la vida”. En este foro cabe destacar que Unamuno aprendió el danés para poder leer las obras de Søren Kierkegaard en el original. Français Hier dimanche j’ai fait une excursion avec la famille à Kayserberg, un très joli village qui se trouve sur la route du vin en Alsace. Avec ses charmantes maisons à colombage, ses ruelles, ses vignes et sa gastronomie il vaut bien la visite. En plus, c’est la ville natale d’Albert Schweitzer, grand humaniste, théologien et musicien qui à l’âge de 30 ans s’est mis à étudier la médicine pour dédier sa vie à l’aide humanitaire. Il s’est spécialisé en médicine tropicale, et en 1913, il est parti pour Lambaréné au Gabon (à l’époque Afrique-Equatoriale française). Là-bas, il a d’abord fondé un hôpital, et après la première guerre mondiale, pendant laquelle il a été incarcéré, il est retourné en Afrique pour lutter contre la lèpre et soigner les malades. Schweitzer a reçu le prix Nobel de la paix en 1952 pour son œuvre humanitaire, ayant mis en œuvre une philosophie de respect de la vie. Il était d’ailleurs très inspiré de la philosophie du jaïnisme. À Kayserberg on peut visiter un musée dédié à Schweitzer. I have been a week to Fuerteventura. It is an island with an interesting history. I went to the small village Betancuria, which was founded by two Normans, Jean de Bethencourt and Gadifer de la Salle, and which was the capital for many years until the city Puerto del Rosario became the new capital in 1860. As for the name of the island, scholars do not agree as to its meaning. “Fuerte” is clearly “strong”, but “Ventura” has been interpreted as either “Fortune”, “Happiness” or “Wind”. As for the latter, those who visit the island soon find out that there it is always windy, and the wind can be really strong at times. I also visited the Unamuno museum, which made me pick up his major philosophical work again. It has been translated with the title “The Tragic Sense of Life”. It is worth mentioning here that Unamuno learnt Danish in order to be able to read the works of Søren Kierkegaard in the original. And yesterday I went to the beautiful Alsatian village of Kayserberg. This is the birthplace of Albert Schweitzer, great humanist, theologian and musician who took up medicine at the age of 30 and specialised in tropical medicine, after which he went to what is currently Gabon. He established hospitals and fought against leprosy. For his work he got the Nobel Peace Prize in 1952.) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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