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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Rikyu-san Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5530 days ago 213 posts - 413 votes  Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, French | Message 177 of 206 08 March 2010 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There is no doubt that geopolitics play a role in the use of French internationally.
But take a look at this article, from the New York Times, written in 1886. It acknowldges those of you who point to geopolitical influences but also writes the following about why French was chosen as the lingua franca of diplomacy and international relations: "The choice was made by a process of natural selection. French has been polished into an instrument of almost perfect sharpness and precision for the purposes of exact statement and facile intercourse." Later the status of French was challenged and English took over, but it seems the take-over happened because of the relative decline of France and the relative ascent of England - not because English was better than or even equal to French as a medium of almost perfect sharpness and precision for the purposes of exact statement and facile intercourse in the same way as was the case for French. Edit - here is the link: The French Language in Diplomacy Edited by Rikyu-san on 08 March 2010 at 3:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6441 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 178 of 206 08 March 2010 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, ambiguity can be worked around. That doesn't change the simple fact that some languages are more ambiguous than others with certain types of expressions, and that people often only notice one potential meaning without seeing the others - which is a problem, because different people don't all see the same meaning, and don't realize there's an ambiguity.
Fully agreed, but blasting people on the assumption that this is their mindset doesn't change their minds. Despite the 'Latin' on my profile on the left, I've never understood this particular enthrallment - the classical languages don't strike me as all that special, and they have plenty of ambiguities and warts too (no language with an ablative should have any claim to a lack of ambiguity whatsoever...). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| spanishlearner Groupie France Joined 5456 days ago 51 posts - 81 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 179 of 206 08 March 2010 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Indeed French has oftentimes been lauded for its precision. The opposite is also true though. In one of his books, Jean-François Revel writes about how he desisted from creating a French version of the Economist because in his opinion the French language does not lend itself well to the kind of pithy and to-the-point writing for which the British weekly is known. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| spanishlearner Groupie France Joined 5456 days ago 51 posts - 81 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 180 of 206 08 March 2010 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Once you get to the point where you can read the masterpieces rendered in that language, you'll understand the enthrallment. Again, language is like marble to Michelangelo's David. Even in a language as systematic as Sanskrit, meaning is often left for context to expound. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6441 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 181 of 206 08 March 2010 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I doubt I will, honestly. Neither the content nor the the languages themselves appeal to me that much. Russian and Japanese are beautiful languages; Latin and Greek leave me pretty cold. My experience so far with language learning points to my original impressions about how much a language itself appeals to me (structurally) don't tend to change much as I learn it better, though a higher level does let me better appreciate the ones I do like.
On these points, we fully agree. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| spanishlearner Groupie France Joined 5456 days ago 51 posts - 81 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 182 of 206 08 March 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well Volte, this is a personal assessment that of course is beyond questioning by anyone but yourself. Perhaps from your background in mathematics structure plays an important role in your aesthetic sensibility. And I agree with you that for example the beauty of Russian is plainly evident from the start. Where I believe you could be mistaken is in dismissing the effect on the appreciation of a language of reading the masterpieces that it has given embodiment to. We don't study Latin, Greek, Arabic, Sanskrit or Classical Chinese because of their linguistic features; we do so because so much of the loftiest exertions of mankind have found voice in them. Thus without having experienced those masterpieces one really cannot pass judgment on the merits of these languages. It would be like smashing the David to pieces and then wondering what's so special about a pile of dirt. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6441 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 183 of 206 08 March 2010 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Very valid points. I don't rule out the possibility of learning Sanskrit in depth someday, though it's not in my immediate future. Nonetheless, I can appreciate photographs of Michaelangelo's David, while acknowledging they fall short of seeing it live. I haven't found anything in classical literature which speaks to me in the same way - perhaps this is a personal failing, or will change with time, but it's currently the case. If I loved classical works, it would make sense to study the original languages in depth - I fully agree with this sentiment. As it stands, I don't. I haven't found myself warming to Latin at all, despite taking a class that reads literature in it in the original, for better or worse. There are some nice parts, certainly, but I don't find myself appreciating or enjoying it anywhere near as much as I do a lot of other things. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hoopskidoodle Senior Member United States Joined 5502 days ago 55 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 184 of 206 08 March 2010 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I imagine this kind of alarmingly chauvinistic raving was all too common in interwar Germany. Infer from that whatever you'd like. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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