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Language with Rolled Ls? | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| JCF Diglot Newbie United States Joined 6415 days ago 18 posts - 18 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Russian, German | Message 1 of 10 13 March 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't know if anyone is able to help me with this, but I would like some help identifying a language. Today I was walking behind a pair who were speaking a language I have never heard before. The vowels tended to be softer and longer than in English. The L's were usually rolled, but not always. R's were also rolled. In general, the syllables seemed almost choppy.
Any ideas? Peter Edited by JCF on 13 March 2010 at 12:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 2 of 10 13 March 2010 at 12:14am | IP Logged | ||
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There is no such thing as a rolled L. The different between L and R is usually the length
of time the tongue stays in the same place, hence the lack of rolled Ls. But maybe you heard Japanese? Edited by Arekkusu on 13 March 2010 at 12:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 10 13 March 2010 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||
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I doubt that my answer is the correct one, but actually Icelandic has something like a trilled couble l. The Icelandic placename Thingvellir is pronounced as "thingvedlir".
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 4 of 10 13 March 2010 at 12:26am | IP Logged | ||
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If they were tall and blondish - maybe Scandinavian or Baltic, but not Danish.
If they looked Mediterranean, maybe Romanian. If they looked East Asian, perhaps Japanese. I often hear Eastern European languages that I can't quite place. If people of that nationality started arriving in large numbers you'd learn to recognise it soon enough. Lots of Eastern European languages have rolling Rs. But it's really impossible to say for sure based only on that information. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 5 of 10 13 March 2010 at 12:31am | IP Logged | ||
Is that not a voiceless l? In any case, there is no such thing as a trilled l and to say the truth, I'm not sure what a "rolled l" is supposed to be. Looking at wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_language#Phonology, this seems to be confirmed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 10 13 March 2010 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can't se any clear reference to the pronunciation of geminated l in Icelandic on that page. But I have checked some other sources. For instance I have found a BBC page transcribes "ll" as /tl/, while Travlang compares it to ""ttl in battle". And this involves a tongue flap that is very close to the one in a standard single-flap 'r'. Besides 'r' is trilled (or singleflapped) in Icelandic so that would also fit the bill.
But there may of course be other languages in JCF's neighborhood that have the same characteristics. Edited by Iversen on 13 March 2010 at 9:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 10 13 March 2010 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | ||
In the chart, we can see a voiceless l, so I assumed that might have been what Icelandic "ll" was. But then, perhaps "rolled l" was meant to point to a refloflex l? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 10 13 March 2010 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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The pronunciation of double 'l' in Icelandic is very different from the way a single 'l' pronounced, and the difference was not immediately apparent from the Wikipedia article.
Icelandic is not among the European languages that have been credited with retroflex (or cerebral) consonants, in contrast to both Norwegian and Swedish - see this article: ..in Swedish and Norwegian (where a sequence of r plus a coronal consonant may be replaced by the coronal's retroflex equivalent, e.g. the name Martin would be pronounced [maʈin]. Edited by Iversen on 13 March 2010 at 11:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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