Intensity is the Secret (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Intensity is the Secret
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

87 messages over 11 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 2 ... 10 11 Next >>

icing_death
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United States
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Message 9 of 87

11 April 2009 at 3:07am | IP Logged

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

I learned enough to pass my Exam in Mandarin, to be able to translate newspaper
editorials, in writing and orally, in both directions, and to carry on conversations,all in about 8 or 9 months.

Very hard to believe, but if it's true the 10,000 sentence kids are going to be envious:)

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

I remember what I considered the most important element of language learning
success in those days. The key to me then was intensity. I still think it is, for the really serious learner.
I was sure that learning Chinese in 8 or 9 months, working 6-10 hours a day, enabled me to learn better than if
I had taken 2 years to learn it, at a more leisurely pace. I think there is a white heat of activity which causes
networks to form in the brain, and the hotter the temperature, the more intense the learning.

slucido wrote:

The point is that intensity and time are the most important factors= massive practice.

We need to study as much as we can every day, as hard as possible and as long as possible.

Hard= intensity

That's your point, not his. I once again completely disagree with your interpretation and your point, but thanks
for bringing up this interesting topic. Off topic, your English is even better than last time. Can we finally say the
slucido 100,000 sentence method is successful?

anamsc wrote:

What I understood was that he was saying in that quote was that by putting in the same
amount of hours but in a shorter amount of time, he learned better.

That's exactly what he said. And I agree with you. It's funny, because if your read all his posts when he was a
member of this forum, he had come to the conclusion that time on task was the key, which I believe to be closer
to the truth.

As I've stated before, I believe there is a sweet spot in language learning time. To illustrate this, say you have
500 hours to study. 1 hr per week for 10 years is probably less effective than 10 hrs per day for 50 days. On the
other hand, 10 hrs per day for 50 days is probably less effective than 1 hr per day for 500 days.

And there is another factor to bring up when deciding how much to study. Languages just take a long time to
learn. The average person, no matter how many hours she studies per day, will probably not be able to learn a
very different language to the extent Kaufmann claims in a mere 9 months.

As an example, a very fast native English speaking Mandarin learner posted in this forum that after several
months of intense learning he got frustrated and quit. After a 6 month break, he decided to pick up the language
again. He was happy to find that all the little issues that were hindering him before had worked themselves out
in his mind. He quickly went on to fluency.

That's what I mean by languages take a long time to learn. So I take advantage of this fact, and let time be on my
side. I back off on the number of hours, and add other languages. I can learn one difficult language every 5
years, or I can learn 3 difficult languages concurrently every 10 years. It's that much more efficient.

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Javi
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Spain
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Speaks: Spanish*

Message 11 of 87

11 April 2009 at 10:18am | IP Logged

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with people's disagreement. I think there are two factors here that you guys haven't considered:

1) Language learning is not just about studying, actually some people would think that is not studying at all. There isn't a clear limit on how many hours you can spend on it daily, that is, tiredness is not a limit. You can spend an hour doing some hard study sitting at your desk, and then change activity, for example you can lie on the sofa listening to your Ipod, or walk through the woods, engage in conversations, watch TV, etc. You can spend the whole day on the language, that's called immersion.

2) In practical terms, if you work more intensively on something you really like, at the end of the day the total amount of hours is always gonna be greater. I won't stop after X hours, I'll continue using the language and learning the language, which are two sides of the same coin, that's why I started in the first place. It seems that Steve did stop because he's a polyglot, that's to say, someone who learns a language just for the sake of doing it, and who aims to basic fluency rather than to native fluency.

I do think that in this case, giving up after X hours, the way you distributed those hours can make a difference. Only then spaced might be better, because you allow the language to get deeply-rooted in your mind.

Edited by Javi on 11 April 2009 at 10:32am
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slucido
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https://goo.gl/126Yv
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Message 12 of 87

11 April 2009 at 10:57am | IP Logged

Please, be aware of the context. He needed to pass an examination. Kauffman writes:

Kaufmann wrote:

There was a time when things were different. There was a time when I had to learn a language for a living and had a different attitude. I was assigned to Hong Kong in 1967 by the Canadian Trade Department, and my job was to learn Mandarin. I was getting paid for studying. It was my job.

I learned enough to pass my Exam in Mandarin, to be able to translate newspaper editorials, in writing and orally, in both directions, and to carry on conversations,all in about 8 or 9 months. I remember what I considered the most important element of language learning success in those days. The key to me then was intensity. I still think it is, for the really serious learner.

If you read below, you will find a commentary where he writes and clarifies:

Kaufmann wrote:

I agree that the learning system matters, but not as much as putting in time with the language in an enjoyable way.

I agree.

I need "fun" to use the "intensity" method. If I like the content, I will study harder, with more intensity and more time.

I wholeheartedly agree with Javi. Language learning is not just about studying. You can spend some time studying grammar, but you can spend a lot of time reading or listening interesting content. This is going to let you work more intensively, even if you are not aware of this fact. If you work in something you really like, at the end of the day the total amount of hours is always going to be greater.

On the other hand, if you want to learn and master a language, you are going to continue endlessly. There is not a limit.

Edited by slucido on 11 April 2009 at 10:57am
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slucido
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Message 14 of 87

11 April 2009 at 2:08pm | IP Logged

aYa wrote:

I remember the learning log of a guy who spent some six hundred hours intensively studying Pimsleur. But his secret key didn't open any lanaguage doors, I'm sure.

Please, we are talking about intensity learning a language and not about learning Pimsleur or Assimil or whatever...

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icing_death
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5863 days ago
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Speaks: English*

Message 15 of 87

12 April 2009 at 4:29am | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

aYa wrote:

I remember the learning log of a guy who spent some six hundred hours
intensively studying Pimsleur. But his secret key didn't open any lanaguage doors, I'm sure.

Please, we are talking about intensity learning a language and not about learning Pimsleur or Assimil
or whatever...

But aYa makes a good point - the learner studied intensively for 600 hrs, but didn't progress very much. So
intensity was not the key to success for him. Maybe he should have used linq.
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Steve Kaufmann
Newbie
Canada
thelinguist.blogs.co
Joined 5707 days ago
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Message 16 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:51am | IP Logged

If you read the post you will see that I was contrasting my present situation as a dilettante learners to my situation when I was learning for a living so to speak. Now I say that enjoyment is the key because otherwise you simply will not put in the time. But I remember clearly that upon completing my year of Chinese I felt strongly that learning efficiency increased exponentially with the intensity of study. Intensity of study is not only a matter of hours per day. It is a matter of efficiency, of not studying lists of words out of context, of not sitting in classrooms, of not asking useless questions like "why is this right or wrong?""Can I also say it this way" etc.,of moving to authentic content asap, of combining listening with reading, of not looking things up in a conventional dictionary, of learning and relearning, and anything else that increases one's efficiency so that the learning per unit of time goes up. This plus the time per day adds up to intensity. Movies are not intense, songs are not intense, at least for me.

The more intense the learning, the sooner the brain gets used to the new language, in my experience.

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