Intensity is the Secret (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Intensity is the Secret
Tags: Word List \| Time to learn \| Learning Strategy
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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Steve Kaufmann
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Canada
thelinguist.blogs.co
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Message 25 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:01pm | IP Logged

I can only find my Language Profile, where is my member control panel?
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Steve Kaufmann
Newbie
Canada
thelinguist.blogs.co
Joined 5707 days ago
20 posts - 24 votes

Message 26 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:08pm | IP Logged

Slucido,

Method matters a great deal in my view. From my, albeit superficial, reading on how the brain learns, I think the process of language learning is largely the same for everyone. What are different are our likes and interests.

What we like to do influence the efficiency of different learning methods for us, and, obviously, influences where we spend our time. But not everyone learns equally well, and method as well as attitude towards the language and how to learn are major reasons.

In any case it is interesting to hear about what people like to do and how well it seems to work for them.
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Volte
Tetraglot
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Switzerland
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Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
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Message 27 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:14pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

But I remember clearly that upon completing my year of Chinese I felt strongly that learning efficiency increased exponentially with the intensity of study. Intensity of study is not only a matter of hours per day. It is a matter of efficiency,

Somewhat tautologous, this. Efficiency increases with intensity. Intensity is efficiency. Efficiency, therefore, increases exponentially with efficiency -- a mathematical impossibility.

It's poorly phrased, but it's not at all a tautology. Rephrased:
1) The more intensively you study, the more 'efficiently' you learn.
2) You can do things for a lot of hours without it really being 'intensive' in the sense that he means this - basically, if an activity is inefficient or pointless, it doesn't lead to the type of gain he mentions above. Intensively staring at a blank wall isn't going to help you learn any language faster.

1) is debatable - Professor Arguelles, for one, appears to disagree, unless I misinterpret what he's written. That said, I do think Mr. Kaufmann is correct on this point.

Other notes, such as the colloquial use of 'exponentially' where it may not mathematically be appropriate, are pointless nitpickery in this context.

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

of not studying lists of words out of context,

Then you're using the wrong word. Lists can be studied "intensely".

Quote:

of not sitting in classrooms, of not asking useless questions like "why is this right or wrong?""Can I also say it this way" etc.,

I agree to a point with th classrooms thing, but appropriate questions are vital. If you have a communicative need, find out how to fill it.

It's clear what he meant - he's listing activities which he doesn't consider effective. You are free to disagree with him.

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

of moving to authentic content asap,

Here's another dangerous vaguery: as soon as possible. What does that mean? When exactly is it possible? As advice goes, it carries no meaning.

I'd say "from the first minute"; other people may have other criteria. It's not meaningless, merely vague and open to interpretation; no one would reasonably argue that 10 years after initial exposure was 'as soon as possible'. Language learning is a field where surprisingly few truly precise statements seem to be possible and meaningful.

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Steve Kaufmann
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Canada
thelinguist.blogs.co
Joined 5707 days ago
20 posts - 24 votes

Message 28 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:22pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

Somewhat tautologous, this. Efficiency increases with intensity. Intensity is efficiency. Efficiency, therefore, increases exponentially with efficiency -- a mathematical impossibility.

Quote:

of not studying lists of words out of context,

Then you're using the wrong word. Lists can be studied "intensely".

Quote:

of not sitting in classrooms, of not asking useless questions like "why is this right or wrong?""Can I also say it this way" etc.,

I agree to a point with th classrooms thing, but appropriate questions are vital. If you have a communicative need, find out how to fill it.

Quote:

of moving to authentic content asap,

Here's another dangerous vaguery: as soon as possible. What does that mean? When exactly is it possible? As advice goes, it carries no meaning.

1) Whether this is a "mathematical impossibility" does not interest me. If absorbing meaningful content is the most efficient path to learning, and the more such content is absorbed, the faster I learn, then 1) the more I reduce distractions (like leafing through a dictionary to find a word that I will forget; like listening to explanations that I will forget;like sitting in class;) then the more efficient is my listening and reading, and the more intensely (hours per day) I listen and read, the faster I learn.

That is why, until the unknown words in a text comes down to a manageable level, it is best to read on the computer where online dictionaries and even online declension tables can be instantly accessed.

2) You may be able to study lists intensely but if that is not an efficient learning activity it will not contribute to learning efficiency.

3) The explanations are not vital to me. What is unclear at first will eventually become clearer through exposure.

4) I think was well understood by people not intent on pedantic nit-picking. But I can add additional information if you wish. As soon as possible means as soon as you are able to enjoy doing so. I would rather work through authentic content, reading and listening, and using an online dictionary to save time, and then listen repeatedly to this content, than work through uninteresting learner content.

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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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Message 29 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:31pm | IP Logged

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

I can only find my Language Profile, where is my member control panel?

At the bottom of the profile. Under the Private Message.

1 person has voted this message useful

slucido
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Message 31 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged

I think it's important to remember this article:

http://digital.georgetown.edu/gurt/1999/gurt_1999_07.pdf

Lessons learned from fifty years of theory and practice in government language teaching

FSI wrote:

Lesson 3. There is no “one right way” to teach (or learn) languages, nor
is there a single “right” syllabus.

Students at FSI and in other government language
training programs have learned and still do learn languages successfully
from syllabi based on audio-lingual practice of grammatical patterns, linguistic
functions, social situations, task-based learning, community language learning,
the silent way, and combinations of these and other approaches. Spolsky (1989:
383) writes, “Any intelligent and disinterested observer knows that there are
many ways to learn languages and many ways to teach them, and that some ways
work with some students in some circumstances and fail with others.” This
matches our experience precisely.

...

Lesson 4. Time on task and the intensity of the learning experience appear
crucial.

Language learning is not an effortless endeavor for adults (or for
children, for that matter). For the great majority of adult learners, learning a language
rapidly to a high level requires a great deal of memorization, analysis, practice
to build automaticity, and, of course, functional and meaningful language
use. Learning as quickly as possible to speak and understand a language automatically
and effectively in a variety of situations and for a range of purposes requires
intensive exposure to and interaction with that language. At FSI, we have found
that it requires at least four class hours a day—usually more—for five days a
week, plus three or more additional hours a day of independent study.

Edited by slucido on 12 April 2009 at 5:42pm
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Steve Kaufmann
Newbie
Canada
thelinguist.blogs.co
Joined 5707 days ago
20 posts - 24 votes

Message 32 of 87

12 April 2009 at 5:41pm | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

Steve Kaufmann wrote:

I can only find my Language Profile, where is my member control panel?

At the bottom of the profile. Under the Private Message.

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