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Someone with absurd views on language learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5585 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 1 of 33 23 January 2010 at 10:21am | IP Logged | ||
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A while ago I was conversing with a women and several other people in Japanese.
Without wanting to show off, I can say that I have a formidable vocabulary in Japanese and take learning vocabulary and characters very seriously. My personal feeling is that I must learn everything because I really want to speak with native fluency. That includes colloquialisms all the way to obscure medical, scientific, philosophical, legal terms. This woman was shocked by the fact that I knew how to talk about all kinds of illnesses and medical procedures in Japanese. The group were talking about illnesses and medical treatment by the way. She asked me why I bother to learn these words and told me that she thinks I am crazy! When I explained that I have to learn everything to get fluent at Japanese, this was here response: "But you`re an English person aren`t you!". She said this in complete shock as if wanting to learn as many words as possible is somehow abnormal. This woman`s views on language learning seem absurd! Why would someone have the idea that a language learner shouldnt bother to learn the target language to complete fluency? If you dont want to get completely fluent, why bother in the first place? And why are people who do make a point of learning advanced vocabulary somehow crazy? Her views confuse me. What confuses me the most is that this particular women is not inexperienced in language learning. She spent three years in the US! So she should understand pretty well what it means to learn a foreign language. To me it doesnt make sense. Why wouldnt an English person in Japan need to learn advanced vocabulary? If you dont want to study to complete fluency, what is even the point in starting? Also why wouldnt a serious language learner want the ability to express oneselve equally as eloquent as in ones native tongue? No matter how much I try to think about why she may think this way, I cannot find an answer. It is just confusing me too much as to why even an experienced language learner would hold such views on language learning. So I will ask people on this forum! Edited by hombre gordo on 23 January 2010 at 10:21am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7167 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 2 of 33 23 January 2010 at 10:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Look, Hombre Gordo, if you are really that "shocked" by this woman's attitude, as in you can't even imagine how she could think that way, then I'm sorry, but you just aren't thinking things through.
There are so many things to do in life that we can't do them all to the highest level. For instance, I occasionally like to play tennis. Just because I don't want to go out and become the next Roger Federer doesn't mean that it's somehow illegitimate that I like to play tennis. Do you see where I'm going with this? The fact is, as someone with a "formidable vocabulary" in Japanese surely knows, that skill comes with a price. Learning a foreign language to a genuinely high level and then maintaining that level requires constant vigilance, constant input, constant refinement. It is a price that not everyone is willing to pay, because not everyone needs to use a foreign language the way she uses her native tongue: There are plenty of people who happily finish the Pimsleur Italian Complete Course so that they can converse with the waiters in Rome. And don't lose any sleep over it. I, too, want near-native fluency in German. Or, more precisely, I would like to be able to use German with the same accuracy with which I employ English. Frankly, I (and any other reasonably educated native speaker) know a helluva lot of words in English. Words like sedulous, clavicle, mercurial, and phlegmatic. It is quite daunting when you realize that yes, you will have to memorize all of those words and more if you really want to speak X the way you speak your mother tongue. Think about it: When you know Japanese as well as you know English, then you will have precisely twice as large a vocabulary as a similar native speaker. That's pretty impressive, and a little shocking ;), if you think about it. Edited by Sprachjunge on 23 January 2010 at 10:55am 19 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6374 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 33 23 January 2010 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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You should have said: "If I didn't know these words, I wouldn't be able to converse with
you right now, would I? If I want to be fully functional in a language, I need to learn as many words as possible. If a native speaker knows them and I want to understand native speakers, then I must also know them, otherwise, I will always be in the dark as to what is being said and therefore have a language handicap." Yes, her views are absurd. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6770 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 4 of 33 23 January 2010 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's certainly true that if you're going to use the language regularly, every word you could possibly know may come
in useful. I've been in several situations where I regretted my lack of medical terminology. On the other hand, studying haikus and archaic language has paid off a few times. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Muz9 Diglot Groupie Netherlands Joined 5526 days ago 84 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Somali | Message 5 of 33 23 January 2010 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Some natives view folks who achieve native-like skills in their language as wannabe's of that country, as if they try to be something that they are not. Ridiculous mentality but a lot of people really think like this.
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5523 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 6 of 33 23 January 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Like Sprachjunge hints at, I think this is about more than language learning. Some people are satisfied with being fairly good at something, others insist on being excellent. Do you also try to master any sports you're into?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5585 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 7 of 33 23 January 2010 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Im glad that some people agree with me in that I am right to find her ideas a little absurd.
Muz9 I never thought about that. Is that kind of mentallity really that common? My opinion with regards to learning foreign languages is as follows. One of the reasons I have such a drive to learn so much vocabulary is for the sake of my interlocutors. Nobody wants to talk to someone who has to look up every 10th word or so do they? If you think about it, the more vocabulary you learn, the more complex conversations you can have. The more you can do this, the more you will be able to hold peoples attention and consequently the more friends you will be able to make. If you can talk about all the topics you can talk about in your native language, there is no reason why you shouldnt be able to make many friends, right? I think that if we consider the feelings of our interlocutors there is definitely a very good reason to try ones upmost best to absorb as much vocabulary/expressions as possible. I personally think that the opposite view is absurd. Namely the fact that some language learners dont bother to memorize higher level words because they dont think they will ever need them. For example, one guy I knew thinks that "betray" is a word too high level and obscure to bother memorizing! That is just one of many examples. If you dont even learn such simple words how the heck can you have proper conversations with natives! People with this approach are living in a textbook fairy land if you ask me! When they say good by to cinderella, snow white and the dwarfs and micky mouse and enter the real world of the target language country, they find that they cant get around properly, get a reality check and have to rely on their little expat clique. Now isnt that approach the most absurd?! 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5437 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes Speaks: German*, French, English | Message 8 of 33 23 January 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | ||
It doesn't matter what you want or don't want for yourself, as long as you don't force your will upon others. The original question is whether you would frown upon someone else who tries to play like Roger Federer. "Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." (Oscar Wilde) 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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