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Tags: Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 14 04 February 2010 at 10:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I do read a lot, both extensively and intensively, but my general feeling is that I learn more words through wordlists (directly from dictionaries or from my intensive reading/copying) than I do from reading extensively. However my reading sessions are indispensable for learning the idiomatical side of the languages, and I would also forget my wordlist words if I didn't use them for something.
I don't think I learn many words from listening - if I don't know a word it will just pass by and be lost. Besides I listen far too little in my worst languages because I can't find easy AND interesting stuff to listen to. Most of the things I watch on TV are in English, and I don't need to learn many new words in English. Thinking (everywhere) and participating in conversations during my travels however has an important role by telling me which words and expresion I still need to learn. I can relate to Astrophel's observation about coffee shops (except that I don't spend much time in coffe shops or bars). Even travels where I don't feel ready speak in the local language are useful because I walk around thinking about my surroundings in that language, - this was for instance what I did in Icelandic and Greek during 2009. I am not systematical enough about writing down ALL 'missing' words and expressions, but I do keep a partial record of things I have to look up back at the place I stay. Edited by Iversen on 04 February 2010 at 10:36am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| BartoG Diglot Senior Member United States confession Joined 5449 days ago 292 posts - 818 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Italian, Spanish, Latin, Uzbek | Message 10 of 14 04 February 2010 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | ||
When I was at university, I would become extremely frustrated when I couldn't write in French the same way I wrote in English. And so, for a brief period, I went crazy finding "equivalents" for my favorite words and phrases in English. And my writing went downhill, downhill, downhill. It turns out that in French you don't talk about the same things you do in English, and you don't talk about things the same way. What I had taught myself, essentially, was how to do a technically correct translation of advanced English prose. As I read more French, and in particular, as I read more literary criticism and historical analysis, I started picking up expressions that worked. I found papers that were argued the way I think and I almost unthinkingly borrowed the words and expressions they used to frame their ideas and arguments. To come to the final point, real competence in French did not come for me when I was able to express in French the things I could express in English; it only came when I could stop expressing in French the things I would express in English. Think about it this way: If you have one friend who likes poetry and another who likes cars, the conversations you have with them are going to be very different. The words you use, the phrasings you choose. If you have a wide and varied circle of friends, it can actually be awkward to get them together because each friend evokes a different aspect of your life and your personality and so while you have things to talk about with each of them individually, there isn't so much in common among the whole group. It's the same with language: Once you get that immersion component, you'll discover new things to think and talk about and you'll find that the cultural context brings out different aspects of your personality out in different ways than with the native language. Indeed, a liberating aspect of learning a foreign language is that you can build a whole new world of meanings and associations that aren't bound by your experiences growing up or in school. To put it another way: I don't go to France to be an American who can express American ideas in French; I go to France to be French. Certainly we all have to start with the basics. And from there, we need enough words to figure out what's going on. But once you've got a strong foundation, you don't need to know how to say in a new language the things you'd say in your own tongue. You need to figure out what people who think like you or who you'd like to hang out with might say. So if you're into neuroscience, find magazines about neuroscience in your target language and work on the vocabulary in them. If you like cars, don't learn the words for V4, V6 and fuel injection. Find a car magazine in the language and find out what car buffs discuss in the target culture; they may have very different ideas what makes an awesome car. In the age of the internet, there's a lot of stuff out there. So don't try to bring yourself to your target culture. Bring the target culture to you and see what words and ideas are in play in the cultural niches where you think you'd be most happy. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| darkwhispersdal Senior Member Wales Joined 6042 days ago 294 posts - 363 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Ancient Greek, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Mandarin, Japanese, Latin | Message 11 of 14 04 February 2010 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was given an Ojos de Brujo CD for Christmas by a friend and I've found myself picking up more volcabulary from it than from doing word lists. I associate words with their songs so sometimes if I can't think of the word I think of the song I heard it in and it comes back. I'm hoping to get some more music soon so I'll learn faster.
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| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5962 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 12 of 14 04 February 2010 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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@BartoG
I agree to a large extent with what you said. However, there are many things worth translating from your own language. To take your example of cars, I would want to learn to describe my car in the foreign language. Or for the example on neuroscience, I would want to learn to describe what I had studied in neuroscience in the foreign language. Of course you will be able to talk about it most naturally after having lots of immersion, but it's still nice to "cheat" a little and look up words that are needed for talking about your experiences, so that you can enrich your conversations, even before you have had a lot of experience with the foreign language. Edited by lichtrausch on 04 February 2010 at 11:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5537 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 13 of 14 05 February 2010 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree with this. Words I've learned after previously hearing them in a memorable context from some other source (usually songs, but sometimes from videos I frequently watch instead) seem to just stick with no real effort. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 14 of 14 05 February 2010 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | ||
Same here, I pick up really fast on words that come up in songs I like. What's more, I can usually recall the full line in which I've heard a word, so that I also know the pattern in which I should use it, the prepositions and so on! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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