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Can this website make its own programs? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6770 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 25 of 48 10 November 2009 at 3:53am | IP Logged | ||||||||
The discussion was on plagiarism, not copyright. Copyright is much murkier and depends on the jurisdiction. However, we're talking about reworking generic learning materials here, not recreating a novel with the character names changed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6013 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 26 of 48 10 November 2009 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't think copyright's as "murky" as you're making out. What do you mean by "generic learning materials"? "Reworking" any existing learning materials without permission to reuse the material would be in breach of copyright. The only muddy line here is how much identical material can exist in two courses as the result of mere coincidence, and what amount of identical material constitutes evidence of copyright infringement. You could attempt to game the system by making a derivative course and altering it until it no longer resembles the original enough to be noticeable, but that would probably be harder work than writing the course from the ground up. So it's better start with a set of principles and make a course that matches them. The problem is separating material from principle -- for example, the "principle" of common situations as presented in Pimsleur: is "no, the hotel is here, the restaurant is over there" a direct result of the application of the principle, or is it a conscious design choice? You could support the argument for the former by establishing that a high percentage of courses have such material, but that'd still be shaky. It'd be hard to apply the principles of Michel Thomas without coming up with a very similar course, too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6540 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes Speaks: English* | Message 27 of 48 10 November 2009 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It'd also be hard to accurately write down these specific principles unless the developer deliberately used
techniques in structural linguistics. For languages like Mandarin with strict word order I think it would be very hard to avoid plagiarism. As for citations, why don't language developers cite grammar manuals? Would it look too messy? If a student majoring in Linguistics were to make a course for some project, would he or she have to cite grammar manuals? From the learner's perspective, having a course with grammar manual citations would be ideal because a grammar manual is required reading anyway, so it would be beneficial to begin cross-referencing right from the start. Edited by Kugel on 10 November 2009 at 10:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 28 of 48 10 November 2009 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Copyright is not enforceable unless the internet as we know it is closed down.
That is the reality of the situation. There isn't a single course that is mentioned on this site that the majority of users here couldn't find for download in 5 minutes... People in China, Russia etc probably wouldn't even be committing a crime if they downloaded and shared it. The rest of us would be entering a grey legal area where it is easy to cover one's tracks, and very hard to prove that any crime has been committed. If somebody were to develop a language course for this site, they should do it as "open source" or at least make it freely available. That is the model of the future. They could ask for donations by users, or fund their site with ads... Or they could create some kind of subscription service where new content is pushed out to people automatically. Something that couldn't be pirated due to its nature as a service... 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6013 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 29 of 48 11 November 2009 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Is breaking the law OK if you won't get caught? Even if it was legal, is it not a bit rude to be ripping off the hard work of other language enthusiasts? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6770 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 30 of 48 11 November 2009 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
If it's a stupid law, yes. There are so many laws today (hundreds of thousands) that we all break many every day without even knowing it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5523 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 31 of 48 11 November 2009 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Exactly. It's been a while since laws were connected with morals, now we're trapped in a huge machinery where the state regulates everything down to the height of your indoor thresholds. At least in communist Sweden. Possibly with good intentions, but that doesn't make it reasonable. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6013 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 32 of 48 11 November 2009 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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While I sympathise with those of you whose love of unusually-shaped doors has been outlawed by your totalitarian dictatorships, I'm still no clearer as to whether you are happy with ripping off other authors or not....
3 persons have voted this message useful |
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