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Bilingual conversation dynamics | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6052 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 1 of 17 31 December 2009 at 6:52am | IP Logged | ||
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I have been thinking about something for some time now, ever since I could speak another language. That is, what are the dynamics of bilingual conversation (each knowing 2 of the same languages), depending on each one's ability in the language? For example;
Scenario 1; Native bilingual vs Native bilingual = 1/2 of each with code switching Scenario 2: Native bilingual vs learner bilingual = Native overpowers learner and establishes the relationship in their native language. Scenario 3: Multiple learners and natives = ???? But what about when the language skills are not overpowered, nor equal, but constantly vying to establish the relationship in their L2, or their L1? Have any of you, "fought" with a person on what language you will speak with them? For example, I know a bilingual native Spanish speaker, who in spite of the fact I speak fluent Spanish, speaks English with me. This brings an awkward situation when we are together with native Spanish speakers who know little English. He and I naturally speak Spanish to them, but he not to me, although I will speak to him..etc. Thoughts? Stories? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6661 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 2 of 17 31 December 2009 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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It may just be a battle of wills.
I suspect that location is an important variable here. If you are in the United States, a Spanish-speaking immigrant who speaks good English may be reluctant to talk with you in Spanish. After all, that person has more incentive to practice English than you do to practice Spanish because English is so practical in the United States. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5961 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 3 of 17 01 January 2010 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | ||
I think context and personalities are important here.
The first native Spanish speaker is probably very intent on communicating with you. He may also think your Spanish skills could be stronger. On the second point, I have a native Polish friend who is a member of a local Polish American church. The entire mass is conducted in Polish and programs for the adults are completely in Polish. The parish priest is American born. You and I probably would consider the priest's Polish to be extremely good. And given the ability of the priest to function at very high levels in Polish, we might even say that he is fluent. However my friend says that the priest's Polish is not that good and that sometimes it is embarassing. You could test out the waters and ask the first speaker to talk with you in Spanish...see what comes of that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Siberiano Tetraglot Senior Member Russian Federation one-giant-leap.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6495 days ago 465 posts - 696 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, ItalianC1, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Serbian | Message 4 of 17 01 January 2010 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | ||
I think it's impolite to force an inconvenient language to anybody, I can't say about your case. I think I'd ask why he does that, what I could improve, etc. But anyway, when other people are with you, and they're definitely weak in English, you guys would get more prestige points speaking Spanish than forcing them into English. If I talk to an IT colleague, and others, non-IT people are with us, I prefer using normal words, not IT slang. Slang would be just rude. I know a Russian guy who always insisted on speaking English to ANYBODY in his university. The most certain thing he achieved was annoyance and alienation of his peers. This is a marginal case though. My cases: 1. N. Russian + F. Italian vs N. Italian + F. Russian I have 2 such persons: one guy who speaks Russian at intermediate level, and we exclusively speak Italian. The other guy lives for a few years in SPb, speaks Russian well, and we mostly speak Russian, because otherwise I struggle with active vocabulary shortage. 2. N. Russian + F. Italian + F. Spanish vs N. Spanish + N. Italian (bilingua, with stronger Spanish) + F. Russian Here we don't bother and if one of us struggles, no problem to switch code. Edited by Siberiano on 01 January 2010 at 10:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| adrian Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5488 days ago 8 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Polish, German | Message 5 of 17 01 January 2010 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Do you mean the native overpowers the learner and establishes the relationship in the *learner's* native language? In that case I have a lot of experience of this. For example, speaking French to a 1st language French speaker who speaks better English than I speak French. It's happened with Polish speakers too. Normally the switch to English happens without warning the first time I ask for repetition or explanation of what the other speaker has said. It leaves me feeling a bit despondent and thinking "oh, have I failed then..?" Of course, I'm sure sometimes the other speaker feels s/he is doing me a favour by switching to English. I sometimes have to explain I actually *like* speaking a foreign language, even if my skills are far from perfect. I feel that while my language skills are at a reasonable level, I still have difficulty catching what is said first time around in conversation, especially if there's a sudden change of context. I think the problem is that if I appear "not to understand" early in the conversation, the other speaker presumes my language skills are much more limited than they actually are. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| qklilx Moderator United States Joined 6188 days ago 459 posts - 477 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 17 01 January 2010 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I let Japanese and Koreans talk to me in any of the three languages I know. I usually use English if they know it, and whenever I feel like switching I switch. If they don't know English then naturally I'll use only their tongue and nothing else.
But yes I agree that if one person is fully bilingual and the other isn't then the conversations will probably take place in the native language of the second person since it will result in fewer misunderstandings. I do notice that a lot of random switching goes on though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| hypersport Senior Member United States Joined 5883 days ago 216 posts - 307 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 7 of 17 02 January 2010 at 1:58am | IP Logged | ||
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In a group setting with other Spanish speakers that don't speak much English, for the one guy who appears to speak both English and Spanish with equal ease to speak to you in English even though you speak to him in Spanish I would guess he doesn't feel your Spanish is good enough, or maybe he's trying to showoff his English ability to the others.
Whatever the case is, it's rude as he excludes the rest of the group every time he responds to you in English. Unless the entire group can understand both languages, it should be kept to one language if there is a shared language by all. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6052 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 8 of 17 02 January 2010 at 6:29am | IP Logged | ||
It is a strange situation. His Spanish is a little different from other Mexican Spanish, while my Spanish is just standard neutral Spanish. Sometimes he admits later that he didn't understand what a (Mexican) just said, (neither did I). All of the Spanish speakers speak poor English. Meanwhile, he told me the other day that sometimes people can't understand me because I speak "fast" and "with an accent". That day, someone mistook me for an Argentinian because of both of these things (I apparently have an Argentinian flavor to my voice). However, in my view it is he who has the accent, doesn't roll r's etc, even though his Spanish is native, it is effected by his English. Anyway, I couldn't imagine the chaos with multi-linguals of multiple languages in a group conversation. Personally, I despise code-switching, I find it confusing and ugly sounding. I can do it with no problems, but when others do it it throws me off for a second. The point of the thread was just wondering about the social awkwardness of "deciding" what language the relationship is going to be in. Has someone in here actually defined this explicitly? Or changed the language in the middle of a relationship, saying "ok, from now on lets just talk in ..."? Edited by irrationale on 02 January 2010 at 6:31am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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