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Talk to the hand non-native speaker | ||
Tags: Speaking | Difficulty | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6044 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 1 of 34 15 January 2010 at 1:53pm | IP Logged |
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The professors at my university encouraged everyone in my German class to talk to each other in German as much as possible. I never understood how talking with my fellow students would help me improve my German so I never did. I believe that talking with a non-native speaker who shares the same mother tongue as you just reinforces mistakes. Being exposed to a non-native speaker who makes lots of errors is in my opinion really harmful. Especially during the early stages of learning a new language when it's easy to pick up bad habits without realizing. I also hate exercises that have the sentences written incorrectly and ask you to correct them. I don't want to be exposed to any mistakes/errors because I make enough of them myself.
I would really like to know what you think. Should language learners avoid non-native speakers? Edited by John Smith on 15 January 2010 at 1:53pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5523 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 2 of 34 15 January 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged |
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Depending on your level (and your distance from Germany), it might be a reasonable way to get you speaking at all. I find it weird myself, but I wish I didn't because I think it is useful.
Speaking a language is not only about knowing the grammar, it is also about being confident in talking in the language, no matter how badly you speak! At the early stages, you won't be able to even hear all the details in the speech of an actual German anyway, so it can surely be beneficial to talk to non-natives. Even if they won't be able to correct your mistakes, and even if they can't produce perfect German themselves, it's a way to force you to produce German sentences that is more natural than talking to yourself in your room, or translating from English aloud. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5471 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 3 of 34 15 January 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged |
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If you are following the same course then your level should be very similar to one another. I don't think it's bad to speak to your classmates. Yes, you'll both be working within the same limited vocabulary and grammar, but it'll help you to greatly improve your handling of the language and of what you've already learnt.
If you and your classmates know the material well then you'll be able to point out mistakes to each other, which will also improve your mastering of the language as you see examples of mistakes which are often made and you then know to avoid them. I actually found speaking to learners from my class to be quite helpful when I was learning Dutch. Native and fluent speakers don't know the level your on and will find it hard to adjust themselves to speaking to you. Of course, by speaking to people at the same level as you you'll learn little new, but I think it's essential to reinforce everything you've learnt and to make sure you know everything actively and not just passively. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| GeekGuy Newbie China Joined 5439 days ago 21 posts - 23 votes Studies: French | Message 4 of 34 15 January 2010 at 2:44pm | IP Logged |
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Not necesaarily. At an early stage, I suppose it is rather hard to begin with a native-speaker. I could not agree with you more to the fact that we hate having the "broken sentences" and those incorrectly expressed for they will potentially do harm to us since we are all influenced by the language. Many errors are inevitable because they may be periodically repeated by those who share the same mother tongue with you. As a result, what you hear every day could possibly result in your poor language expressions.
However, it is fairly essential to learn something quite basic in your mother tongue. that is to say, I personally find it too difficult to understand a native-speaker at the beginning. Confronted by a dozen challenges, overwhelming vocabulary, broad accent, various grammatical rules etc you are very likely to be weighed down and discouraged. A native speaker may find it hard to explain everything for you. So it is plain that it will be more efficient if having someone to guide you and explain something you puzzle in a language and a way that you can fully understand . When reaching a higher level, you can enjoy learning a language by surrounding yourself with a group of native speakers. This can help further "fix" your language. Edited by GeekGuy on 15 January 2010 at 2:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| B-Tina Tetraglot Senior Member Germany dragonsallaroun Joined 5529 days ago 123 posts - 218 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Polish | Message 5 of 34 15 January 2010 at 3:44pm | IP Logged |
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I mostly agree with the others; this seems to be about the easiest way to get you some practice in your target language.
(Allerdings würde ich an Deiner Stelle dann versuchen, anderweitig möglichst viel mit Deutsch in Kontakt zu kommen, damit das Sprechen mit den anderen Schülern nicht zur einzigen "Inputquelle" für Dich wird :-) (However, if I were in your place, I'd try to get as much contact with the German language as possible - you should make sure that the talking to your classmates doesn't become your only source of input.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7167 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 6 of 34 15 January 2010 at 6:59pm | IP Logged |
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First, again, your post titles crack me up, John Smith. Well done.
Second, for me personally, I have the same opinion as John Smith; namely, that it's a waste of time. But I realize that this is because for me, language learning is this exciting game, more addictive than video games, where every interaction becomes a round: Will I understand what the person says? Will I be able to respond in kind with something that I know is correct? Highest points if it's both at native speed and you know it's correct because it is a phrase/sentence you've heard before from a native source. Fewer points if it comes out reasonably quickly, but the structure/pronunciation is questionable, etc. It makes talking to German grandmothers about their colon troubles endlessly fascinating! And I'll never forget what I read somewhere about the most effective way to get better at a game: Play (hard) against people who are better than you. So, I gravitate to native speakers for reasons of efficiency. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| TannerS Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5611 days ago 58 posts - 60 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 7 of 34 15 January 2010 at 11:28pm | IP Logged |
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When I was taking 100-level Russian classes several months ago at a local private university, a fellow student and I talked to each other under the supervision of the teacher. It was productive, as any errors were immidiately corrected by the professor: native speaker. I find that this structure is rather effective.
On the other had, there is my high school German class that is the exact opposite situation. We never speak German. We translate from German to English at a fast pace, but never are we to actually produce the language. Today, for instance, I was ridiculed for daring to conceive of a sentance that was as complicated as "Er weiß, wie man mit einer Mannschaft arbeiten soll." Yeah... Apparently one or two word answers are all that are expected or desired... Basically, I'd be happy to speak to anyone right now. Edited by TannerS on 15 January 2010 at 11:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5523 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 8 of 34 15 January 2010 at 11:38pm | IP Logged |
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After some thought, a shorter version of my post would read:
It might not be helpful to listen to your classmates, but speaking to them is. Remember, most of the time native speakers won't bother to correct you either. A great advantage (depending on disposition) is that it is much less embarrasing to talk to other learners. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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