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Alphathon’s G&G log: Gaelic & German | ||
Tags: Gaelic (Scottish) | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Alphathon Groupie Scotland Joined 4172 days ago 60 posts - 104 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Scottish Gaelic | Message 25 of 44 11 April 2015 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Log № 4
Deutsch Deutsch   
Diese Woche habe ich fast nichts getan. Meine Erkältung ist am Wochenende schlechter geworden, und die ist bis Donnerstag geblieben. Ich habe nichts aus „Der kleine Hobbit“ gelesen, und keine Dokus habe ich angesehen. Ich habe auch nur einen Artikel gelesen, der über die Rückkehr des Namens Brontosaurus ist. Schottisch-Gälisch 
Ich habe ein bisschen mehr Schottisch-Gälisch als Deutsch getan, aber noch nicht viel. Ich habe zwei Folgen „Speaking Our Language“ angeschaut, und den übrigen Kapitel drei von „Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks“ gelesen. Aus „Speaking Our Language“ habe ich gelernt, Wörter für Getränke (sùgh - Saft, bainne - Milch, làgar - Lagerbier, uisge - Wasser, uisge-beatha - Whisky (buchstäblich Wasser des Lebens) usw.) und Hobbys (snàmh - Schwimmen, ball-coise - Fußball, iomain - Shinty, draibheadh - Autofahren usw.), und wie man bitte (mas e ur toil e), ich mag… (nicht) (is/cha toigh leam… ), magst du/mögen Sie… ? (an toigh leat/leibh… ?) und Ja, ich mag es (is toigh l’) sagt. Doch sie es nicht gesagt haben, habe ich erkannt, dass leam, leat und leibh präpositionale Pronomina sind! Ich habe die nachschlagen, und ich habe gefunden, dass die aus le (mit, bei) erschaffen sind. Aus „Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks“ habe ich die Ziffern null bis neunzehn, die Tagen der Woche, die Monate und die Jahreszeiten gelernt. Ich habe auch Adverben von Richtung* (wie oben, unten, in, aus usw.) gelernt, die ein bisschen komplizierter als auf Deutsch oder Englisch sind. „Speaking Our Language“ und „Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks“ sind eher abweichend. Allerdings lehren sie viele gemeinsame Wörter. Oft werde ich aus „Speaking Our Language“ lernen, einen Satz oder ein Wort, der/das ich ein paar Tage nach in „Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks“ finden (oder umgekehrt). Z.B. bainne, siùcar (Zucker) und mas e ur toil e habe ich in „Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks“ gelesen, ein paar Tage nach, die ich in „Speaking Our Language“ gesehen hatte.† *I’m not sure what these are called in German. †I’m really not sure about the word order in this sentence, nor whether nach is the right word to use. English German
This week I’ve done almost nothing. My cold got worse at the weekend and persisted until around Thursday. I have neither read any of Der kleine Hobbit nor watched any documentaries. I’ve also only read one article, which was about the return of the name Brontosaurus after it being abandoned about a hundred years ago. Scottish Gaelic
I’ve done a little more Gaelic than German, but still not much: I watched two episodes of Speaking Our Language and read the remainder of chapter three of Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks. From Speaking Our Language I learnt words for drinks/beverages (sùgh - juice, bainne - milk, làgar - lager, uisge - water, uisge-beatha - whisky/whiskey (lit. water of life) etc.) and hobbies (snàmh - swimming, ball-coise - football, iomain - shinty, draibheadh - driving etc.), hand how one says please (mas e ur toil e), I (don’t) like… (is/cha toigh leam… ) do you like… ? (an toigh leat/leibh… ?) and Yes, I like (it) (is toigh l’). Although they didn’t explicitly say so, I realised that leam, leat and leibh must be prepositional pronouns! I looked them up and found that they are derived from the word le (with, by), which I had come across in Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks. From Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks I learnt the numerals from zero to nineteen (much better than Speaking Our Language’s zero to five), the days of the week, the months and the seasons. I also learnt some directional adverbs (which are equivalent to up, down, in, out etc.), which are a little more complicated in Gaelic than in English (or German). Gaelic has words to distinguish between away from and towards the speaker, so there are separate words for, for example, movement towards the speaker from below - a-nuas, and upwards movement away from the speaker - suas, both of which would just be up(wards) in English. This isn’t really that far removed from the German wohin vs woher, or the old-fashioned English whence vs whither, but in Gaelic it seems to apply to far more words. Although they seem very different, there is quite a bit of overlap between Speaking Our Language and Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks. Frequently I’ll learn a word or phrase in one only for it crop up in the other in the next few days. For example, bainne, siùcar (sugar) and mas e ur toil e all turned up in Scottish Gaelic in Twelve Weeks shortly after I’d seen them in Speaking Our Language. So far they seem to complement each other quite well. Edited by Alphathon on 12 April 2015 at 2:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4836 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 26 of 44 11 April 2015 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
"Aber" and "allerdings" are both fine. It's difficult to find one-to-one translations for words in different languages, as their use will always be somewhat different.
"Bis jetzt habe ich noch keine Sprache von Grund auf im Selbststudium gelernt."
Yes, sorry! It's supposed to be: "Wenn ich kann, werde ich..." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Alphathon Groupie Scotland Joined 4172 days ago 60 posts - 104 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Scottish Gaelic | Message 27 of 44 11 April 2015 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Oh I get that and I’m not looking for translations. I’m just trying to figure out what that usage is. If it can be done by analogy then all the better. (Although I’m aware of the potential pitfalls of doing that too.)
That works :). Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. You added /runtergeladen to the end of Außerdem habe ich „Speaking Our Language“ von BBC Alba auf meinen Computer aufgenommen/runtergeladen. I just thought I’d clarify that my computer has a DVB tuner card in it - I recorded it onto the computer just as one might using a DVR or an old VHS tape. BBC ALBA is a TV channel. I assume you just weren’t sure quite what I meant. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4680 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 28 of 44 12 April 2015 at 2:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
A couple more quick things you should be able to improve here. Remember that certain verbs of motion/status don't use "hat/habe/etc" in the compound past (or whatever the technical term is). Thus you would say "Meine Erkältung IST schlechter geworden," for example. You might want to look this topic up and review. The list of verbs affected is relatively small and easy to remember. Further, I would note that "Nichts aus der kleine Hobbit habe ich gelesen" still sounds like a very strange word order to use here, though I'm not certain whether it's "officially" wrong or not. Instead, I would say something like "Ich habe nichts ... gelesen." Cheers! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Alphathon Groupie Scotland Joined 4172 days ago 60 posts - 104 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Scottish Gaelic | Message 29 of 44 12 April 2015 at 2:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Ah yes, I absolutely know that’s the case but always forget about it when actually writing it. (I never even think about it.) I need to be more diligent! Thanks for the heads up. P.S. I think the technical term is, slightly confusingly, the Present Perfect.
OK. As I understand it (which may well be wrong or incomplete of course) Nichts aus „Der kleine Hobbit“ is a noun phrase so it should in theory be correct. If it is awkward though I don’t suppose it matters whether it is technically correct does it? Edited by Alphathon on 12 April 2015 at 2:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4836 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 30 of 44 12 April 2015 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Your German already sounds much more natural than in your first post! Congratulations! Just one comment on Gaelic: "Cha toigh leam..." doesn't mean "Yes, I like...", but "I don't like...". Might create some confusion if you used it that way. ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4836 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 31 of 44 12 April 2015 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
This construction is theoretically correct in the way that it doesn't break any grammatical rule. However, it sounds unnatural because you emphasize the "nichts" unnecessarily. The usual word order, which doesn't sound awkward, is the one geoffw suggests. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Alphathon Groupie Scotland Joined 4172 days ago 60 posts - 104 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Scottish Gaelic | Message 32 of 44 12 April 2015 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That’s pretty much what I thought (that’s what I meant by technically correct). I’m not sure it’s unnecessary—my intention was to emphasise that I’d read nothing—but again, if it’s awkward there’s no point in using it that way. I don’t suppose you could explain why it doesn’t work could you? (I suspect it’s just one of those intuition things so probably not, or at least not easily.)
Thanks!
Hehe, you’re not wrong there! That was a typo. So far all the negations I’ve come across have been some variation of cha… (chan eil, cha, chan e/i etc) or, in the case of interrogatives, nach… , while normal positive sentences have been decidedly not, so I doubt I’d do it in practise. I suspect it’s just because I was listing them all and concentrating on the German. For the English version I literally copied the sentence and translated the phrases (it was easier to do that than format the Gaelic text again) so it was carried over to that too. Edited by Alphathon on 12 April 2015 at 3:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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