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Pimsleur Ultimate | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Silvance Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5485 days ago 57 posts - 81 votes  Speaks: English*, Pashto Studies: Dari | Message 1 of 9 19 June 2014 at 4:08am | IP Logged |
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Has anyone tried this program out yet? I'm looking for a comprehensive language learning system for German (as I'm going to be stationed there after DLI and will have need for conversational German)and I've been looking into the Pimsleur Ultimate program. I'd definitely like to know more about it and how useful it is before shelling out $350 for it.
On another note, which do you guys thing is more effective for fluency (or for starting out and giving a good base to build upon), the Michel Thomas Total German or the full set of all four phases of Pimsleur? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4043 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 2 of 9 19 June 2014 at 11:32pm | IP Logged |
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Lieber Silvance,
YOU'RE STUDYING AT THE DLI? First, something of a rhetorical question : if you're attending the DLI and thence being posted to Germany, why in the world would you not make use of the extensive DLI resources at your disposal? As a starter, you could try the DLI Headstart II German course and the German Gloss files. Are they teaching you Persian prior to your posting? You need not reply, I spent ten years in the RCN. MICHEL THOMAS versus PIMSLEUR Both of these all-audio, self-study, language programmes have their ardent supporters and determined detractors all of whom would most likely begrudgingly recognise the merits of "the other" programme, but not to the point of actually promoting it. I have completed both language programmes and I have a very strong preference for Pimsleur, despite its higher price, its increased investment in time, and its oft-mentioned irritants. Be advised that the apparent similarities between the two programmes are at best superficial and that their approaches are quite different, as are the likely results ... meiner Meinung nach. PIMSLEUR German: "Ultimate" versus "No Frills" Recently, the publishers, Simon & Schuster, began marketing a new version of some of the Pimsleur language courses as the "ULTIMATE" computer variant. As usual, this publisher, ever the master of the slower-than-molasses response to market forces, has made the decision to make available only a few languages in this new version, despite its advantages over the now very-long-in-the-tooth conventional offering. Since I have already completed the full-course menu for Pimsleur German (Phases I, II, III, IV), I have NOT used the "Ultimate" variant, which is available for Phases I, II, III but not for Phase IV. However, I have played with the "Ultimate" variant during a very brief trial period. So, in this light, I will attempt to respond to your questions. To be brief, the "Ultimate" variant drags the Pimsleur Method kicking-and-screaming into the late 20th century. The new version retains the audio files and teaching method from the conventional version and includes, for each lesson, an on-screen presentation of the new vocabulary, as well as example phrases that are drawn from the lesson material, along with some very simple, redundant, exercises designed to reinforce the lessons. In my opinion, a simple, printed, glossary or workbook would have sufficed quite nicely. Nonetheless, this enhancement does eliminate one of the three major irritants of the Pimsleur method (which is an otherwise truly sound teaching method); that is, the user is no longer required to work backwards from the audio files, using a bilingual dictionary, to produce his/her own glossary and notes. The difference in price between the ULTIMATE version (Phases I, II, III) and the MP3 downloadable version (Phases I, II, III) is negligible, making the Ultimate version worth the additional investment. Note carefully that Phase IV is NOT included in the Ultimate version and that it is, in my opinion, an absolute "must" for anyone who decides to study Phases I, II, III. Have I answered your questions? If not, fire away (not wishing to provoke a replay of the Bedford Incident). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Silvance Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5485 days ago 57 posts - 81 votes Speaks: English*, Pashto Studies: Dari | Message 3 of 9 20 June 2014 at 9:08pm | IP Logged |
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Unfortunately, DLI doesn't work like that. The library has very few beginner language
learning resources and the networks are restricted to the language that you're learning. Everything else is off-limits. Only officers get German so the headstart is a no go, so I'm falling back to other resources. In your opinion, given the price difference, is Pimsleur's usefulness in obtaining fluency compared to Michel Thomas worth the $200 price difference (or even higher if I get Phase IV)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4245 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 4 of 9 20 June 2014 at 10:26pm | IP Logged |
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Neither Michel Thomas or Pimsleur will get your to fluency and each has much less content than most beginner courses which will often be much cheaper as well. However they're both very well made courses that make it very easy to learn some solid basic conversation skills, but you're paying more for the ease of introduction rather than the amount of content learned.
Pimsleur teaches through use and doesn't explain any of the grammar. The idea is that you build up an intuitive use of grammar over time and can use it without thinking, the same way you do with your native language (though some learners find they need to look up grammar on their own to get through Pimsleur). It teachers perhaps ~500 words in total on some basic conversational topics, and you'll generally have a high degree of automaticity of these words and be able to call up simple sentences instantly without thinking. Many people who use it have reported getting good compliments on their accent after completing it. Michel Thomas focuses specifically on grammar but without teaching grammar terminology. It uses a lot of words that are transparent to English speakers so you can focus more on getting the grammar correct instead of remembering a bunch of new vocabulary. Michel Thomas has less content and vocab than Pimsleur there's a lot more English explanations on the recordings and no native German speaker for proper pronunciation. However it covers much more grammar than Pimsleur does, and focuses on building much more complex and longer sentences. Generally after finishing a Michel Thomas course I feel like I can express a lot more complex thoughts so long as I know the vocabulary. Overall I think Michel Thomas gives you a much better framework of conversation skills to build on with something that teaches more vocabulary. Pimsleur feels more like a nice head start in that it gives you good pronunciation skills and the ability to fire off simple phrases without thinking. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4656 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 9 20 June 2014 at 11:49pm | IP Logged |
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I've never used the Pimsleur or Michel Thomas courses in German, but I have used them
both in Japanese. All the comments above ring true, in my experience. MT focusses on the nuts and bolts of the language and Pimsleur gives you a leg up when it comes to conversations while trying to hide all that nasty grammar. Neither of them gives you enough vocabulary to get you beyond the first month or two of any reasonable course or textbook. They are both a "good start". I found both in the library, so all I had to invest was some of my time. I don't think that I could recommend either of them as your sole language resource. Both work best when they are used to complement other resources, such as, in the case of German, Deutsche Welle. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4043 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 6 of 9 21 June 2014 at 12:59am | IP Logged |
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Lieber Silvance,
MICHEL THOMAS and PIMSLEUR? If you are hesitating between the Michel Thomas and Pimsleur German courses, you could buy their respective "starter" versions. These versions contain the first few lessons of the more complete courses, the objective being to provide an "avant goût" in the expectation that the prospective buyer will decide to order the full-meal-deal. These are loss-stop options only; they are incomplete and, if you purchase the full courses, you will not be able to recuperate your investment in the shorter versions; however, at least you'll have a better idea of what you're getting yourself into. You can buy these directly from the publishers (in the case of Pimsleur, you can buy individual lessons as MP3 downloads). I have provided the LINKS to Amazon.com Start German with the Michel Thomas Pimsleur German, Basic FSI German As you are probably already aware, the website FSI-language-courses.ORG archives many of the old FSI and DLI language courses that were produced during the 1960's and 1970's. Here's the LINK: FSI-language-courses.ORG I would recommend that you start with the "German Programmed Introduction" version, which was published as a self-study course with a view to helping individuals prepare themselves for the infinitiely more complete "Basic German" version. A few quick tips: (1) Don't bother printing out the entire course manual for the Programmed Introduction course, simply print out the Tape Script that appears that the end of each lesson unit, (2) Don't bother going beyond Unit 20 of the Programmed Introduction course, as the final units are poorly designed, and (3) Don't spend a lot of time on the Programmed Introduction course, it is meant only as a starter. Move quickly to the "Basic German" course. Some people decry the old FSI BASIC courses because SOME of the vocabulary no longer has the purchase that it once had. Nonetheless, I have yet to come across a more complete set of DRILLS for practicing the basic structure of the language, nor have I come across a (legitimate) substantive argument that would prove the ineffectiveness of the underlying method. Don't bother with either the FSI German FAST course or with the DLI Headstart I German course. GERMAN GRAMMAR None of the courses above (Michel Thomas, Pimsleur, FSI) deal with grammar in a straight-forward manner. While I would NOT suggest that you spend a lot of time on this aspect of language learning, an understanding of the basics of German grammar will be helpful as you move forward. There must be 100+ grammars available. To keep matters simple and proportional to your initial needs, I suggest the following summary: German Verbs and Essentials of Grammar (McGraw-Hill). No, it's not perfect, but it's a good place to start. Read through it quickly once, to familiarize yourself with the content and the basic concepts and, as you move forward in your studies, return to it for clarification of the material as presented in whatever course you're taking. Viel Spass! Edited by Speakeasy on 21 June 2014 at 1:24am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4880 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 7 of 9 21 June 2014 at 5:03am | IP Logged |
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In general: you probably won't be able to work through all four phases of Pimsleur in
a row. I would plan on using the first two; you'll need time to let those settle in, and to use and reinforce what you've learned, before jumping on to the third or fourth*. It's possible to save money by buying Pimselur on audible.com, but you'll need to download the courses before you move overseas. Also, note that the Michel Thomas course can be done in a week or two, whereas a level of Pimsleur can take a month (assuming you have to repeat the occasional lesson). My recommended tactic would be MT Foundation + Pimsleur I & II + a good old fashioned book. You can work in later Pimsleur or MT levels as you move forward. * note: or at least that has been my experience. By the third tape it all gets frustrating, and I spend more time mumbling wtf? and re-winding and re-listening and rewinding again than is useful. It's like a house of cards that just collapses - at some point you need a stronger comprehension of grammar and rules than either course can give you. Edited by kanewai on 21 June 2014 at 5:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Silvance Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5485 days ago 57 posts - 81 votes Speaks: English*, Pashto Studies: Dari | Message 8 of 9 21 June 2014 at 8:35pm | IP Logged |
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Which one is MT Foundation? I found the Michel Thomas Method German beginner at the city library, and there are 10 discs in a leather case. Then there's an advanced that's 10 discs, a booster, and a vocab one. I only got the beginner.
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