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Tolstoy and Dostoevsky in the original | ||
Tags: Literature | Russian | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Books, Literature & Reading |  | |
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6656 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes  Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 9 of 17 08 June 2007 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
And sometimes they even add something that wasn't in the original! There are many good translations out there, especially for big languages as Russian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6430 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 10 of 17 08 June 2007 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
So I've heard, but I've never seen it in practice (this is very likely due to the fairly small number of books I've read in non-English languages). Could you point me to an example which was originally in Italian or English, and where a translation in the other language added something (in a good way!) to the original? If not, could you with one of the languages being German? I'd like to observe this first-hand. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7309 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes 6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 17 08 June 2007 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Volte, I can't point out any examples in Italian, but I've read several English novels translated into Chinese where descriptions (adjectives and the like) are excessively added, particularly by using expressions and idiomatic phrases that did not exist in the original work. They do this because Chinese novels generally have an abundance of adjectives and any work without them is considered somewhat bland. So to make up for it, the translators have to "add" all of it in.
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| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6656 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 12 of 17 09 June 2007 at 7:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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L'Albatros
Souvent, pour s'amuser, les hommes d'équipage Prennent des albatros, vastes oiseaux des mers, Qui suivent, indolents compagnons de voyage, Le navire glissant sur les gouffres amers. A peine les ont-ils déposés sur les planches, Que ces rois de l'azur, maladroits et honteux, Laissent piteusement leurs grandes ailes blanches Comme des avirons traîner à coté d'eux. Ce voyageur ailé, comme il est gauche et veule! Lui, naguère si beau, qu'il est comique et laid! L'un agace son bec avec un brûle-gueule, L'autre mime, en boitant, l'infirme qui volait! Le Poête est semblable au prince des nuées Qui hante la tempête et se rit de l'archer; Exilé sur le sol au milieu des huées, Ses ailes de géant l'empêchent de marcher. Charles Baudelaire (Les fleurs du mal) Der Albatros Oft kommt es vor, dass, um sich zu vergnügen, Das Schiffsvolk einen Albatros ergreift, Den grossen Vogel, der in lässigen Flügen Dem Schiffe folgt, das durch die Wogen streift. Doch, – kaum gefangen in des Fahrzeugs Engen Der stolze König in der Lüfte Reich, Lässt traurig seine mächtigen Flügel hängen, Die, ungeschickten, langen Rudern gleich, Nun matt und jämmerlich am Boden schleifen. Wie ist der stolze Vogel nun so zahm! Sie necken ihn mit ihren Tabakspfeifen, Verspotten seinen Gang, der schwach und lahm. Der Dichter gleicht dem Wolkenfürsten droben, Er lacht des Schützen hoch im Sturmeswehn ; Doch unten in des Volkes frechem Toben Verhindern mächt'ge Flügel ihn am Gehn. (Stefan George) The albatross is described rather differently in the two versions. In French, there are many negative adjectives to describe it (indolents, maladroits, honteux, piteux,comique,laid...) while the German translation is much more positive (gross, lässig, stolz (2x), mächtig (2x),....) This significantly changes how the poem is perceived: The albatros in the French original is a pitiful creature, in the German translation it is majestic and dignified. That doesn't mean that the translation is better than the original, but the translator has significantly changed the poem. German Shakespeare translations are another good example, many of which add nuances that weren't in the original text. Edited by Marc Frisch on 09 June 2007 at 7:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6656 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 13 of 17 09 June 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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From Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' (not really literature, but well...) It's the scene, where they listen to Jesus preaching and where one man calls the other 'Big Nose':
- Better keep listening. Might be a bit about 'Blessed are the big noses.' - Oh, lay off him. - Oh, you're not so bad yourself, Conkface. Where are you two from? Nose City? Here's the German version. 'Big Nose' is translated as 'Rübennase' (turnip nose). -Hör lieber weiter zu. Vielleicht kommt noch die Stelle: »Gesegnet sind die Rübennasen.« -Nun lass ihn doch in Ruhe. -Na, du hast aber auch 'n ganz schönen Erker im Gesicht. Woher kommt ihr beiden? Aus Rübennasenhausen? Well, the English version is good, but the German is hilarious! Rübennase is already much more imaginative as Big Nose, but 'Rübennasenhausen' is just fantastic and much funnier than 'Nose City'. I've watched the movie both in English and in German, and while the audience of the English version chuckled a bit in that scene, the Germans were wetting their pants... Another similar scene is when Pilate talks to Brian. In the original, he pronounces 'w' instead of 'r' and in the German translation, Pilate pronounces 'p' instead of 'b' and 'ch' (as in 'ich') instead of 'sch'. So 'Thwow him to the flow' becomes 'Chleudert den Purchen zu Poden', which sounds so funny that it has become a part of popular culture in Germany. Edited by Marc Frisch on 09 June 2007 at 8:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arti Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 7003 days ago 130 posts - 165 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: French, Czech | Message 14 of 17 12 June 2007 at 12:34am | IP Logged | |||||
In University we compared several Russian translations of Shakespear with original.... you know some Russian translations are quite far away from the original, they even change the sence sometimes, no doubt they do sound very beautiful in Russian, but anyway I was very surprised taking into account that the translation with loosing some sence is concidered to be the best. Also I compared translation of Russian litereature into English... it's not perferct as well. "Oblomov" is a famous novel by Goncharov was translated with missing several paragraphs in chapters. Our teacher explained this as probably the translator decided that native English speakers wouldn't understand this because of another cultural background.... So I support those who think that all literature must be read in original ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6900 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 17 12 June 2007 at 5:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've read some short stories in Russian, English and Swedish, and must say that some of the English translations have been very close to the original. Some grammatical features work in English and Russian but not in Swedish. But I can live with that... :)
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| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6438 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 16 of 17 14 June 2007 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Marc, I'd say this is a bad example to prove your point. Poetry is very subjective and difficult to translate and analyze. One of my favorite poems, so I have to say I thing or two. I personally find the French albatross more majestic and dignified than the German one but that's a subjective opinion based on the elegance of expression and aesthetic factors. stolze König and stolze vogel has its positive counterparts in French in rois de l'azur and voyageur ailé. So does grossen vogel (vastes oiseaux des mers) mächtigen Flügel (grandes ailes blanches, ailes de géant) The French adjectives are more evocative, elegant and dreamlike whereas German translation is more direct and physical. There is more power and majesty in those long white wings. I find the French description more poetic, nuanced, melancholic and simply more beautiful. The French Albatross is a more noble creature and therefore its fate on the deck of the ship more painful to contemplate. Pitiful yes, as in deserving of pity but not contempt. The German one remains an awkward bird. However the translation follows the original closely, without adding anything to the meaning. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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