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Gary’s TAC 2012 - The Romantics | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 89 of 167 08 June 2012 at 12:16pm | IP Logged |
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So I decided that instead of complaining about how hard it is to find French people to
practice with, especially ones with a similar age and interests to me, I should be more proactive and take advantage of any opportunities that do come up. Last night I met up with a French guy who I had previously seen at a couple of meetups and we used the good old fashioned language learning technique of getting drunk and having a long conversation about all sorts of subjects - a method which I found quite effective and plan to make plenty more use of when I'm in France. Also it was nice that he was honest and realistic about my French ability and pointed out the things I need to work on, as opposed to the typical "you speak well" empty encouragement. It made me realise that I'm still a hell of a long way off from any sort of fluency but despite that I can still get by and express things quite well, especially when I'm more relaxed. At my level I think proper conversations with native speakers are the most beneficial thing to do, so after I get back from France I'll make a renewed effort to find exchange partners for French and Italian. However I still think with French that I need to keep doing solo work on pronunciation and accent since it's still a weak point. With Italian it's probably not such an issue since I got it out of the way early and, well, it's just plain easier to pronounce. Other than that this week's meetups weren't the best - too much English, too much conversation about subjects that didn't interest me, and too many lower-intermediate learners struggling to put sentences together combined with too little patience on my part because I've been tired and stressed. Still it was a speaking opportunity. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 90 of 167 11 June 2012 at 1:04pm | IP Logged |
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Français
Alors je recommence à écrire en français. Samedi soir j'ai fait une fête chez moi et mon ami français est venu ; on a parlé d'un tas de choses et j'ai dû expliquer ou traduire des choses que mes amis ont dites et qu'il n'avait pas compris en anglais. C'est génial de rencontrer enfin un francophone de mon âge et avec lequel j'ai des intérêts en commun - on s'entend bien et on s'intéresse tous les deux à la langue de l'autre. C'est une bonne pratique pour nous deux pour la vraie conversation. Alors j'espère rencontrer d'autres amis français dans un futur très proche ! En plus, j'ai enfin trouvé un logement à Paris - je vais rester chez mon ami de Skype et sa mère. Comme ça l'occasion de pratiquer ne manquera pas ! Maintenant il est temps de me remettre un peu après quatre jours de fête - j'ai dormi 10 heurs et ça a fait du bien. Ce week-end au Hellfest pourrait être encore plus déchaîné... Italiano Quasi niente la settimana scorsa. Mi ero aspettato che venissero alcune ragazze italiane ma alla fine non sono venute. Peggio per me, e non solo per mancare l'opportunità di praticare la lingua ;). Ma, allora, quando sarò tornato di Francia fra due settimane comincerò forse Perfectionnement Italian e proverò a trovare della gente con cui parlare Italiano. O forse vorrò continuare a concentrarmi sul francese, sarebbe ragionevole provare a "padroneggiare" una lingua prima di cominciare a farlo in un'altra. Qualunque decisione prenda, imperò senza dubbio delle lezione sul apprendimento delle lingue durante i miei dieci giorni di "immersione" in Francia... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 91 of 167 12 June 2012 at 11:50am | IP Logged |
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I went to Language Café last night. I had a couple of conversations in French and it
seemed like I've improved noticeably just in the last week. Really there is just NO substitute for good face-to-face conversation about a variety of subjects with someone who you get on well with. You just pick up so many subtleties in expression that you don't otherwise notice. Like I already said, I'm now going to make face-to-face conversation a priority above all else, especially for French. For Italian I still feel like I could benefit from Assimil Perfectionnement and it would fill in some gaps, but it's still certainly time to be more active in looking for exchanges. (Related rant: an Italian person last night explicitly stated that she was just there to speak English and had no interest in exchanging Italian for English. I know that humans are selfish and that ideas like equal exchange and giving something back to those who help you are somewhat idealistic, but still...!) The other French speakers left early and, as happens quite a lot, I found myself with the Spanish speakers. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I understood almost everything, even though I can't form a sentence myself. A few times I found myself responding straight away in English to things they had said in Spanish, although I tried to keep that to a minimum as it annoys me when other people do that in French conversations. I have absolutely no "talent" for speaking languages, but I seem to have developed quite a skill for understanding - being able to quickly find patterns and make connections in order to understand words and expressions that I've not necessarily heard before. And of course Spanish is so similar to Italian and French that there's plenty connections already there. If nothing else it proves my theory that my time learning French and now Italian is also indirectly time invested into Spanish for the future, which will make it much easier to pick up when the time to start on it properly does come. I like this "investment" idea - it not only prevents premature wanderlust but also gives me even more motivation for my current languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 92 of 167 25 June 2012 at 2:17am | IP Logged |
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I haven't posted here for a couple of weeks, which as you'll probably know is because I
was in France! As planned, I spent four nights at the Hellfest music festival and then six nights in Paris. Some linguistic highlights from the festival and the travel: - I managed to miss my trains both to and from Nantes (the first due to delays and the second due to drinking too much and sleeping in), which required explaining my situation and getting them to exchange my ticket for one for another train. - At Charles de Gaulle TGV station, I tried to get chatting to a big group of students who were meeting up to go to some sort of course in Avignon. However, they quickly stopped talking to me when they found out that I wasn't "one of them", and they weren't even particularly talkative with each other so I didn't get much listening practice out of it. - Lots of random half-French half-English conversations at the festival. - Met a cool French girl and we stayed up all night talking, all in French. I learnt a good few expressions just from that. - A friendly Italian couple got chatting with me while I was waiting outside Nantes train station - first in French and then in Italian after I mentioned that I know some of it. Missing the train wasn't all bad after all! And then Paris, where I was staying with my Skype friend: - A woman working in the Louvre coming and chatting to me and my friend (and blatantly hitting on my friend) for a wee while. - Meeting my friend's mother, who was very friendly and talkative but rather difficult to understand, due to a slightly unusual West Indies accent and quite a monotone voice which was hard to pick out words from. It took me the whole week just to get used to her and understand her consistently. Also, the constant arguments between the two of them over practically nothing were somewhat entertaining. - Chatting to an American girl who spoke French well. No better than me in terms of usage, but her accent was impressive and she definitely sounded quite French. I can't say that Paris went exactly according to plan though: since I was a guest at my friend's house, I didn't have loads of autonomy and it was hard to go and do my own thing, so I didn't make it to any of the language meetups which I was hoping to attend and I generally didn't see as many sights and go on as many nights out as I had thought I would. Also, he was very keen to practice his English so most of our conversations were in it. Between that and being with English-speaking friends at the festival, my trip cannot be called an immersion experience by any stretch of the imagination. On the other hand though, my friend was good fun to hang around with, it was great being with somebody who knows the city well and was able to show me things I wouldn't have otherwise seen, it saved me a whole bunch of money, and after four solid days of partying at the music festival a relatively quiet week was what I needed. I do feel that my French has improved a lot, the words are just coming to me more and more easily and I'm not having much trouble talking about anything. I reckon I can thank the combination of hanging around with my French friend before the trip with hearing lots of real French and speaking at least a bit every day for ten days for that. My Skype friend, who is more honest about people's ability than most, said that my usage is good, better than some people who've been living in the country for a while. But the same old problem I've been having right from the start is still haunting me - my voice being "in my throat". One day I will figure out exactly what that means and how to fix it; it's the one thing that never seems to improve no matter how much I work on it. He also reckons that I "enunciate too much" and move my mouth and lips more than necessary, which I think is me overcompensating for the unclear voice. But apart from that, my pronunciation and accent seem to be good. So my main mission for now is to get to the bottom of this problem and fix it. It was also interesting to watch a successful language learner in action, as he's been learning English for only two years, if that, and is already pretty damn good at it. His secret is just talking lots on Skype, often for several hours per day, and writing notes on new words and expressions he learns. It makes me think that we perhaps overcomplicate things a bit on this forum with all our fancy learning techniques, but on the other hand, maybe his method is the "brute force" way and people like me who don't have the sort of free time he does can do things more efficiently. It does highlight the importance of talking lots and the sheer amount of hours of conversation that are needed in any case. His one problem though is accent; he still has a strong French accent because he never paid attention to it from the start. It's better than it was a year ago, but still prominent. I guess the main things I've learned from the trip are that if I can just fix the whole voice issue then I'll definitely be a "good French speaker" and be recognised as such, and that I just need to keep getting exposure to the language and talking to people as much as I can in order to fill in more gaps and become more fluent. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 93 of 167 26 June 2012 at 11:16am | IP Logged |
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Back to real life and all its compromises sadly. I'm trying to keep up my good work by
doing language exchanges and Skype chats but struggling to find the time to fit them in. The trip to France seems to have made my enthusiasm even stronger, but sadly I don't have any more free time than before. I went to Language Café last night but there were no French speakers there. Normally I would have stayed and chatted to the Spanish speakers as I often do, but I was really tired so didn't stick around long. Would have been better off just staying in, but you never know what might happen! I sometimes feel like the whole world is conspiring to make me learn Spanish - almost every day I meet a Spanish person who asks me why the hell I'm not learning Spanish and offers to teach me. And this is before they even find out that I have an interest in languages! Quite the opposite of French and Italian, for which the most difficult part of learning the language has been finding people who're willing to take my learning attempt seriously and help me out by conversing with me. Not to mention all the nice Spanish girls that I keep meeting. Of course I tell them the truth, that I want to learn but I'm already busy with French and Italian, really don't have the time for another language right now, and even if I did I'd just get mixed up so I'd rather wait until my Italian is good. Anyway I'm aware that this is hardly a once in a lifetime opportunity: Spanish people, even if not the same ones but ones equally friendly and helpful, will certainly still be there in six months or whenever I do feel ready to start, and I should have no problem meeting them especially if my social skills continue to improve at the rate they have done in the last six months. Very much in the abundance mentality here. I had a look on Gumtree and found a couple of people who're willing to do an Italian- English exchange, and I also got a few messages from Italians on Conversation Exchange. So it seems that practice opportunities, while not as readily available as those for Spanish, exist nonetheless. I'm very up for getting stuck into Italian again, even though I want to keep French my priority for the moment now that I seem to be another step closer to fluency, so I'll contact these people and also get a hold of Perfectionnement Italien. Also, I think I'll be going to watch the football with a bunch of Italians this Thursday, and in preparation I'll study some football-related vocabulary since it occurred to me that I have no idea what the words are for things like "score" and "goal". It'll probably be the first time in my life that I'll ever find thematic vocabulary lessons useful. Lastly there's an Italian meetup next Monday which I might go to as well as or instead of Language Café. For French speaking I've found that my voice sounds better, and I can speak faster and more clearly, if I simply relax and strain less and allow it to flow "over" my mouth (as described in the vocal exercises DVD that I mentioned a while ago). I also read some articles about improving vocal resonance for singing that said that if you adopt a pleasant facial expression (not quite a smile, but as if you're going to smile) then your whole vocal passage basically goes into a better position. So maybe the secret to my voice problem is just to relax and be happy! I'll practice that more and see if my Skype friend thinks it sounds any better. I shall recommence writing in French and Italian from the next post, I promise. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 94 of 167 29 June 2012 at 1:39pm | IP Logged |
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Italiano
Sono andato a guardare la partita di calcio ieri sera, come previsto, ma purtroppo non avevo molta occasione di parlare Italiano - il bar era affollato e non sono potuto sedermi vicino agli Italiani. Dopo la partita, ho provato di parlare un po' con loro ma appena hanno saputo che non sono Italiano, hanno cominciato a parlarmi in inglese, e per dire il vero, a questo punto io ero troppo stanco per fare lo sforzo... Sono stato contento che l'Italia avesse vinto la partita, ma adesso non so per quale squadra tifare per la finale - mi piace molto l'Italia ma ho molti amici spagnoli... Ho risposto a qualche annuncio su Gumtree per fare degli scambi linguistici ma non ho ancora avuto nessun risposto. Ci sono molti Italiani qua ma ho l'impressione che non ce ne sono che vogliono aiutarmi... Français Je n'ai pas grand chose à dire, je suis super occupé comme toujours et je ne trouve pas le temps de pratiquer le français. J'ai aussi essayé sur Gumtree et j'ai eu une réponse, et j'aimerais revoir bientôt mon ami français, il faut juste trouver le temps. So overall my attempts to find people to practice Italian with aren't going very successfully; with Italian people in particular I get the impression that they're only willing to help if they're also going to get something out of it, and most of the Italians in my city have been living here for at least a wee while and already have plenty chance to practice English, so I don't have much to offer them. I'll try putting my own ad on Gumtree as well as replying to others, and chase up the online contacts. In the mean time I at least have Perfectionnement Italien to work through. Edited by garyb on 29 June 2012 at 1:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 95 of 167 02 July 2012 at 2:31pm | IP Logged |
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Français
J'ai vraiment l'impression que mon français s'est amélioré après mon séjour en France, bien que je ne l'aie pas pratiqué autant que je n'avais voulu. J'ai discuté avec mon ami sur Skype et c'était assez facile, mais ce n'est qu'une conversation, j'espère que ça continuera. Demain soir je vais rencontrer une française pour faire une échange linguistique, et un autre français a aussi répondu à mon annonce sur Gumtree. Alors, maintenant je n'ai qu'à trouver le temps ! Italiano Non ho sempre avuto una risposta, neppure dopo aver messo il mio annuncio. Se avessi saputo che fosse così difficile trovare qualcuno con cui praticare l'italiano, forse non avrei cominciato la lingua... Ma credo sempre che sia possibile; ieri sera sono andato al bar a guardare la partita e il bar era pieno di Italiani! Allora, esistono, e sono abbastanza numerosi che ce ne deve essere almeno uno che vorrebbe parlare la sua lingua con me... Però ho parlato con un Italiano di Conversation Exchange su Skype. È stato un po' difficile perché il suo microfono non funzionava molto bene ma riuscivamo lo stesso a fare una conversazione (qualche frase in inglese, qualche frase in italiano, ecc.). Preferirei molto parlare con qualcuno "nella vita reale", ma devo approfittare delle occasioni che ci sono. Stasera vado all'incontro Italiano, che avviene purtroppo solamente una volta per mese, dove avrò questa opportunità. Spero questa volta di potere parlare molto in aggiunta a ascoltare. La conversazione di Skype mi ha ricordato la complessità dei verbi Italiani. Devo spesso fare una pausa per ricordarmi del coniugazione di un verbo, soprattutto con il congiuntivo ("termina in -a o -i?"), è più complesso del sistema francese. Ma è solo una questione di pratica, è per questo che cerco tanto di praticare. Edited by garyb on 03 July 2012 at 10:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 96 of 167 02 July 2012 at 2:35pm | IP Logged |
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Couple of mistakes in the above post (notably incorrectly using a capital I on
"italiani") but the edit function isn't working today. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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