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TAC 2013 Team Sparta’s Greek Team Thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4632 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 129 of 231 02 January 2013 at 8:54am | IP Logged | ||
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Happy New Year to all Spartans and welcome to new members! Also a warm welcome from me to renaissancemedi, I find your contributions really valuable, having a native Greek visiting the team is just great!
Then, an apology for my absence during the last couple of weeks. Christmas did not turn out exactly as I had hoped, after the first couple of hectic days a nasty bug of some kind took hold of me and I could not do anything sensible - I did not even feel like studying languages! However, now I am fine again and ready to embark on TAC. Let's make 2013 a great language-learning year. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| embici Triglot Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4603 days ago 263 posts - 370 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Greek | Message 130 of 231 02 January 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Many thanks for your response renaissancemedi.
You have confirmed that, unlike English, there are no clear rules for joining letters in Greek. I will just have to stop googling "Greek cursive" and accept it and carry on! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5759 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 131 of 231 02 January 2013 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | ||
You're welcome :) For the record, most team leaders will do this just for ease of navigation. I'd never have managed to find everyone's logs (or frankly have had the patience, either) without this little trick. The job I really don't envy at all is the organiser's, who I wouldn't mind betting types their way into tendonitis or repetitive strain injury within about a week of being organiser. The lack of a uniform version of cursive is certainly one thing about Greek that I will have difficulty accepting, and even more so the fact that people don't even use cursive! Cursive is so much faster and, when it's done even half-decently, is much more elegant than non-joined handwriting. Cursive seems to be a dying art. My students in China can all read non-joined up handwriting very well, but the second I join any of my letters together they complain that they can't read my writing, and this makes me really sad. I am therefore forcing cursive upon them and the Chinese teaching staff simply because they will encounter cursive if they ever leave China, perhaps to go to university in the UK or the US. Renaissancemedi, is it okay for us to learn to write in Greek cursive if we want to? I would much prefer it this way, but if people won't be able to read it, then there is, regrettably, little point. What do you think? Jack Edited by LanguageSponge on 02 January 2013 at 8:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 132 of 231 03 January 2013 at 9:59am | IP Logged | ||
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Of course you can join letters! Older generations learned how to do it properly, we just do it anyway our handwriting has formed. I am so sorry I don't know the rules, but I promise I will look for a book on the subject. If I find one, I will scan pages and rules for you.
I also love proper cursive. I had a manager in a job I used to have, that had the most beautiful handwriting ever. He was proud of it too. He was an older gentleman, who had learned the proper rules. In the older days it was a sign of an educated person to write like that. They used pen and ink back then, which made everything even more beautiful. Kids at elementary school had calligraphy as a seperate subject, with accordingly lined notebooks etc. Not anymore. I was never taught. If you want people to be able to read your handwriting, first you must learn to form individual letters properly. I don't have to say how important that is. Then you'll join letters anyway, when writing fast, but let me look for a book. I am also interested in the subject! In this link http://www.foundalis.com/lan/hw/grkhandw.htm notice the κ or the π, etc. They have two versions. Learn details like that. Generaly speaking, be bold! The greek language is a forgiving lady, and there is no abuse you can do, that we ourselves haven't done already. Jack, if you see my notebooks from the university, written fast in order to take down whatever the professors were saying, you will be schocked. There are passages even I can't read back. In diy cursive... So be brave and attack the language, and have no fear of mistakes. That's the way to conquer, Spartan! Edited by renaissancemedi on 03 January 2013 at 10:03am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 133 of 231 03 January 2013 at 10:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Here is something I just found online on cursive. If you notice the little tails on the letters, they are for joining. Don't join numbers, it'll be a disaster. Do you ever join them in English?
http://comicstrades.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/p48.jpg 
Notice the small τ. There are two forms displayed. The second is very common when handwriting. Edited by renaissancemedi on 03 January 2013 at 10:29am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5825 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 134 of 231 03 January 2013 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I started learning Russian, I learnt how to write in cursive and always do so. I'm always surprised when I come across other students, especially university ones, who don't write in cursive. However in Greek I got the impression that it isn't common to write in cursive, reinforced by the fact that this is rarely mentioned in coursebooks, so never tried to learn it.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5858 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 135 of 231 03 January 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think if you want to be able to write Russian reasonably quickly you HAVE to use cursive (and i think most Russians write in cursive anyway). I couldn't imagine writing more than a paragraph or two using block letters... However, i rarely use cursive in English, though my letters often do connect/flow together. But really handwriting in general is far less common anymore (these entire 17 pages of conversation were all typed ;)). For now, i'll be happy just being able to type in Greek :)
@renaissancemedi: i've never heard of anyone writing cursive numbers. It's possible that some people do join them, but i don't think it's very common. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5759 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 136 of 231 03 January 2013 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the response, renaissancemedi :)
I have never seen anyone join numbers together in English or in any other language based on the Latin script, and can only imagine that it would look awful, although I have heard of equally strange things over the years. For example, I taught myself Russian cursive from a book when I was about 16 or 17 or something like that, and when I got to university no-one contested my written cursive. After my first year of uni I went home for the summer holidays and went to visit my old form tutor, who happened to be a Russian national. We were discussing Russian over a cup of tea and lemon and I had cause to write something down. I didn't think anything of it and just started writing and he stopped me and asked me in a sort of accusatory tone why on Earth I wasn't joining my capital letters to the lower case ones. He then proceeded to write something of his own and he joined all of the capital letters to the following ones - for example in the words Анна (Anna) and Аня (Anya) the letter A would be joined onto the н that followed it. I found this very strange and I've never ever met anyone else who did this besides him, despite his insisting that it was completely normal. This may have been something to do with his age (he was in his mid-forties) or the fact that he was left-handed, like me. Our handwriting had all of the other little quirks of left-handed Russian cursive in common though, so perhaps not. Just thought I'd bring this up as it's interesting. I've also noticed that some of the Greek handwritten forms that renaissancemedi so kindly showed us above, coincide with some of the italic forms in Russian. Some of the Greek cursive forms above seem to me to be massively elaborate though. And while I think of it, renaissancemedi, does Greek cursive written by left-handed people have any quirks that don't exist among right-handed people? I'll definitely look into books and stuff for Greek cursive. It's a great shame that the calligraphy classes for primary school kids were dropped but then as Crush pointed out above, handwriting in general is becoming less and less common now. I actually hand-write more in Russian and Chinese than I do in English. Jack 1 person has voted this message useful |
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