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Penelope 2014 TK / FR / RU / HE | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4681 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 121 of 252 21 January 2014 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | ||
[Given that you're learning the alphabet, I'll assume you're starting from absolute scratch, and don't have any useful experience with the oral language or studying text in transliteration.] In that case, you definitely should NOT do what I did! ;-) My experience mainly has been one of learning mostly from parallel texts and extensive reading in the ancient source texts. I don't know much about going from zero to Modern Hebrew, but here are a few thoughts and resources, at least: First off, I want to share a possible resource I just discovered yesterday in the local Jewish bookstore: www.hebrewtoday.com. They apparently have two different levels of simplified newspapers for learners, including things like vowel markings and vocabulary help. As an absolute beginner, even the easy one is going to be a big challenge, but I'm a believer in getting into real-world materials ASAP, and this looks like a reasonable intermediate stepping stone. The absence of vowel markings in particular makes it extra hard to dive into native texts, and usually you don't find vowels outside of (little) kids' books and certain religious texts. This appears to be very similar in style to a currently defunct (as of 2012) newspaper called Sha'ar LaMatchil, which I thought was rather good--but they went under before I got to use it really. That was supported by the Education Ministry, IIRC, whereas Hebrew Today looks to be a private company. My biggest concern though, is that the most recent copies of this bi-weekly publication that the store had were 5-6 months old, leading me to fear that they also might have gone under--but I cannot find any evidence that they have. I tried using FSI years back, and while it might be OK for some, I didn't get very far. It bored me to tears, and I didn't have the patience. I've started looking at the Assimil (French base, of course), and it looks OK, but I don't know how hard it would be starting from scratch with it, so I can't speak to that. Another resource I used for a while was "A Textbook of Israeli Hebrew" by Haiim Rosen, which I was able to pick up cheap secondhand. Unlike most courses, this one starts you off reading without vowels from day one, for pedagogical reasons explained in the text. I never followed a rigorous schedule with this text, but I nevertheless gained some very useful experience and confidence from reading my first vowel-free texts in this volume. As one would expect, various newspapers can be read online, such as Haaretz, Yediot Achranot (ynet), Ma'ariv (www.nrg.co.il). One exercise I've found useful is to copy text from a news article into Google Translate, and BOOM, instant parallel text on a current topic of interest. There's some free radio and TV online, as well, such as at http://bet.iba.org.il/. Not sure how helpful all that will be, but if you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them. I'm at least so-so with the Classical Language, but I can't claim to have mastered the modern language myself, even though I do know quite a bit more than most of the kids pick up in Hebrew school here. I still haven't made a concerted effort at Hebrew since discovering HTLAL and learning how to learn languages... 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 122 of 252 21 January 2014 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Toda! This is a very helpful post indeed. I hadn't dared to think about native sources, but you have a good point, and these are good directions and links.
I will be using assimil, so we'll see how good that is. I am currently, as you know, learning the letters, and it is a bet with myself to do it as fast as possible. So, after that, it's all hebrew script. I am aware of the vowel symbols, which I will only read but never write, in an attempt to not rely on them in the future. But this is a bit vague in my head yet. I have to tell you, I'd love the idea to be able to read classical Hebrew. But I'll follow my own advice here, the one I give to those who learn greek: unless there is a particular reason, learn the modern language and work backwards. However, how wonderful it would be to read biblical texts and poetry! I will definitely read newspapers (usually they use the same words and themes over and over, so if I manage to really read one day's paper, chances are the next will be easier, etc.) There is a synagogue in Athens, but I have no idea if they offer education, if it is free, or expensive or what. I'll have to look into that one. May I suggest you also try your hand in modern Hebrew? I'd like a team mate, but of course you may not have the time for an extra language. I have plenty of time, that's why I'm trying to make the best of it, as long as I have it! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5159 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 123 of 252 21 January 2014 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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renaissancemedi, tarvos is learning Hebrew, too. He's at an intermediate level, I
believe. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4681 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 124 of 252 21 January 2014 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | ||
That was my original thinking, too, really. I had an immediate need for the Classical Language, but didn't have any real need for the Modern language at the time, since I hadn't started regularly bumping into Hebrew-speakers yet. If you have a chance and you've never been to a synagogue, I'd look into visiting. Perhaps in Europe it would be more complicated to visit during actual religious services (e.g., due to security worries), but in the US it's fairly common for non-Jews to visit synagogues either as guests during a bar- or bat-mitzvah, but also just out of interest (e.g., students in comparative religion classes). Understanding Israel and Israeli culture definitely requires understanding Judaism, Jewish history and Jewish culture (and that's a lifelong study in and of itself). I'm surprised no one else is signed up for Hebrew this year. I've been doing my best to stay focused on Russian for as long as possible, and thus intentionally put Hebrew into the queue as "next in line." While I'd love to master the modern language and plan to keep improving, I can already do most of what I REALLY need with Hebrew. I'm actually using some bilingual Classical Hebrew-Russian sources to learn some Russian vocabulary. All of which is to say, who knows? A year is a long time... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 125 of 252 22 January 2014 at 8:38am | IP Logged | ||
You are right, I had forgotten. Thanks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 126 of 252 22 January 2014 at 8:51am | IP Logged | ||
I searched online, and it seems they do have some lessons, by they have started since November. It's just as well, because it's quite far away. On the other hand it would have been nice. To be honest I don't know if the language they teach is modern or classical, but I assumed modern, otherwise they would specify it. The Jewish community is very well organised and active in Greece, and I know that they cherish their heritage, although they are also very proud as Greeks, or so I've understood. I personally find this a wonderful combination. I agree with you, a knowledge of culture is important, and, although I know a lot about the community's history both in Greece and abroad, I know nothing about Judaism. I should look into that as well. Israel is a country I'd love to visit, not just the mythical Jerusalem, but also Tel Aviv and the desert. And we are close, it's very doable. As for the combination of Hebrew and Russian, it's funny but I also find it pretty normal. Maybe it has something to do with history, and books. Are past Hebrew scholars, russian speakers? Thank you so much for helping out! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 127 of 252 22 January 2014 at 9:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Hebrew
I sat down last night and read/wrote/repeated all the alphabet. Some letters stuck, some didn't. Some are dangerously similar. I am not saying that in one studying session one can learn the letters. I am worried thought, about how long it will take to simply read/write them without thinking. So, after a few more efforts with the letters alone, I will start with assimil and simply preactice untill they stick. I believe that's the only way to do it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 128 of 252 22 January 2014 at 9:23am | IP Logged | ||
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Russian
The first lesson is done, but I already knew everything so it was easy. I did practice cursive and pronunciation though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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