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Sarnek’s Log - TAC ’15 (Rätsel, Sleipnir) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5159 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 89 of 176 01 January 2015 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Good luck with Swedish. I, too, have felt in love with my Scandinavian language on the go (Norwegian), and I am also aiming for basic fluency this year. Wish you a successful year with goals accomplished.
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| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4208 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 90 of 176 15 January 2015 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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Förlåt att jag svarar så sent, men den sista gången jag försökte svara er så hade min dator beslutat att stänga av sig själv...
@Emme: Tack, detsamma! @Expugnator: Good luck to you too, captain! Update. EN Swedish: I've got a new textbook this year (Sagor och sanningar), which seems really great. It's basically a collection of stories, newspapers' articles, legends and so on, with audio recordings and exercises for both active and passive skills. I'm loving it so far, I think it will be of great help in expanding my vocabulary. German: New textbook for German as well: Begegnungen - Deutsch als Fremdsprach B1+. This book is more suitable for classes, and with the help of a teacher it can be a good instrument. Like last year I have to study words from a book for the exam (which I totally hate). This book is Großes Übungsbuch Wortschatz, and includes A2-C1 words... whatever that means. I'm not sure I will use Anki this year, as it didn't work that well for me last year. We shall see. SWE Svenska: I år använder jag en ny lärobok (Sagor och Sanningar) som tycks vara fantastisk. Det finns flera berättelse, tidningars artiklar, sagor o. s. v., med inspelningar och övningar både för aktiva och passiva förmågor. Hittils älskar jag det. Jag tycker att det ska hjälpa mig mycket att utöka mitt ordförråd. Tyska: En ny lärobock för tyska har jag också: Begegnungen - Deutsch als Fremdsprach B1+. Den här boken är lämpligare för kurser, och med en lärares hjälp så det kan vara ett bra instrument. Precis som förra året så ska jag studera och lära mig ord ur en bok för min tentamen (som jag fullständigt hatar). Boken är Großes Übungsbuch Wortschatz och innehåller A2-C1 ord... Jag är inte säkert om jag ska använda Anki detta år, eftersom det inte har fungerat så bra med mig. Vi ska se. DE Swedisch: Dieses Jahr habe ich ein neues Lehrbuch, das sehr gut aussieht. Es ist eine Ansammlung von Geschichte, Zeitungsartikeln, Legenden und so weiter, mit Audio-Aufnahmen und Übungen für sowohl aktive als auch passive Erkentnisse. Ich liebe es bisher. Ich denke, dass das eine große Hilfe wird sein, um mein Wortschatz zu erweitern. Deutsch: Ich habe ein neues Lehrbuch für Deutsch: Begegnungen - Deutsch als Fremdsprach B1+. Dieses Buch ist besser geeignet für Klassen, und mit eine Lehrers Hilfe, ein gutes Instrument sein kann. Wie letztes Jahr muss ich Wörter aus ein Buch für meine Prüfung studieren (ich hasse das). Das Buch ist "Großes Übungsbuch Wortschatz", und enthält A2-C1 Wörter... Ich bin mir nicht sicher ob ich Anki dieses Jahr benutzen werde, da es bei mir nicht sehr gut funktioniert hat. Wir werden sehen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4208 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 91 of 176 27 January 2015 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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New Swedish recording:
"Frejas smycket" http://vocaroo.com/i/s16xxzWWzjcu Please give me feedback! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4514 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 92 of 176 27 January 2015 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Makes me think about these old tapes with fairy tales for children ...
For what it's worth, it sounds pretty convincing to me. Someone from Norrland trying to speak Rikssvenska or so. My German colleagues do a lot worse - me too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4208 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 93 of 176 28 January 2015 at 10:39am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't know the differences between Sweden's regions accents yet (apart from the most
obvious one: Southern Swedish vs Central/Northern Swedish), but that sounds like a compliment, so thank you :) Here's a German recording, so you can be as mean as you want (and please be, I need to improve) :D "Umgangsformen im Geschäftsleben" http://vocaroo.com/i/s1yBtrXUhQKV Edited by Sarnek on 28 January 2015 at 10:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4514 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 94 of 176 28 January 2015 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | ||
well, you asked for it... :P here it comes: You have a noticeable foreign accent, but it doesn't impact understanding. Wouldn't be able to recognize you as an Italian (you don't have the typical prosody), often it sounds French, sometimes a bit Spanish. 2 problem areas: 1. vowel quality, especially the difference between long and short vowels. A typical Italian problem I guess. 2. Consonant voicing. 2 things to note: how to voice and when to voice. I'll go into more details on this point. Voicing is a tricky area, especially when it comes to plosives. In Romance languages the difference between voiced and unvoiced plosives is different than in German (and English for that matter, but to a lesser degree). Go to a phonetician/speech pathologist if you want to tackle that, it's damn hard to do. I have the same problem, but the other way round. When to voice: the rules are pretty easy, but it doesn't always feel right to adhere them (I tend to ignore them myself which gives me a southern accent). While I err on the side of unvoiced sounds, you voice your sounds too often and too much. The basic rules are: Unvoiced sounds don't get voiced. Voiced sounds get unvoiced whenever they aren't in a voiced context. And they seldom are in a voiced context. Voiced context = preceded AND succeeded by a voiced sound. If this other voiced sound is a consonant too, the same applies to it, so the rule is chained, which makes it a bit complicated to follow. Examples: consonant at the beginning of a sentence: no voiced context consonant after a pause: no voiced context consonant at the beginning of an isolated (ie. not embedded into a sentence) word: no voiced context consonant at the beginning of a word following a word that ends on a non-approximantic consonant (final devoicing!): no voiced context Basically voicing is only done when the consonant is surrounded by vowels, nasals, l (and I think r). Otherwise: devoicing. Just as a rule of thumb. But generally, it is not bad. The problems you have often persist even if you have lived/studied/worked for several years in Germany. It's usually not a problem, one (ie. a native German speaker) gets used to it pretty fast. Edited by daegga on 28 January 2015 at 4:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4208 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 95 of 176 28 January 2015 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Amazing. Thanks a lot, I'll work on it straight away.
One question though: are consonants like the d in "deutsch" or "du" devoiced? I knew consonants are devoiced at the end of a word (and by devoicing I don't mean simply devoicing them, like a p from a b, or a t from a d, but in a more complicated way, like you said - Danish has the same thing, I think), but I was not aware at all of the other contexts. Edited by Sarnek on 28 January 2015 at 5:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4514 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 96 of 176 28 January 2015 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends :)
The 'd's in your example get devoiced if you say the word in isolation, because no voiced sound is preceding them. But in "Im deutschen Tal ..." for example, the 'd' is voiced because it's preceded by a voiced sound (and the /m/ isn't affected by final devoicing). The same with "Ehre du deine Eltern!" (very bad/archaic example, sorry), because of the preceding vowel. But again, it's still not voiced the same way you would voice it in a Romance language. And for the special devoiced sounds: A devoiced /b/ sounds kinda like a French /p/, but not like a German /p(h)/. Edited by daegga on 28 January 2015 at 5:32pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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