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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4861 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 33 of 69 27 January 2014 at 2:53pm | IP Logged |
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I wish I had an intimidating pile of Korean books...
I like reading your thoughts on extensive reading and vocabulary acquisition! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5123 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 34 of 69 31 January 2014 at 11:35am | IP Logged |
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@druckfehler: Thanks :)
I'm contemplating taking part in the Super Challenge May 2014 - Dec 2015 with Polish. In January, I've read more than 300k words, which corresponds to 12 book units (1'200 pages) of normal books. (As a matter of fact, I've read 26 books, but many of them were short books with fewer words per page than normal ones. Those happy days are drawing to an end, though, and basing my estimates on such numbers wouldn't be prudent.) The Super Challenge consists of 100 book units (10'000 pages) which seems to be well in reach at my current pace, even if I slack off by 50% (summer!). There's also 100 films to watch, which is equivalent to 9'000 minutes of podcasts if I'm not mistaken, corresponding to 15 minutes per day. The challenge is not in reaching those rather modest goals but rather in keeping consistently at it for such a long time. Thai: I've worked through the 'cultural diversity' chapter of primary grade 3 'Society, religion and culture'. While due regard is given to Islam (there are many Thais of Muslim faith in the South), the chapter also touches upon Malay, Lao, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, British and French customs and immigration to Thailand. Not a single word is lost about Khmer Thais and Burmese immigrants which number in the millions each in contemporary Thailand (I've read estimates of 1 million Khmer Thais and 2-3 million Burmese, whereas the French embassy in Bangkok estimates the number of French residents in Thailand at 15'000). Thai attitudes towards Cambodia and Burma always get me worked up. Ending on a funny note, here's what the book teaches how to say สวัสดีครับ (bonjour) in French: บอง ชู - 'bong (t)chu'. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5123 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 35 of 69 02 February 2014 at 10:58am | IP Logged |
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French: Highlight of this week was France Culture's series on occupied territories, covering Nagorno-Karabakh, North Cyprus, Western Sahara, South Ossetia and Transnistria.
Yesterday, I had a nice experience of flow reading a Polish detective story. This might have been the first time I've experienced flow when reading Polish, and it certainly bodes well for the future. Edited by Bakunin on 02 February 2014 at 10:59am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4659 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 36 of 69 02 February 2014 at 4:55pm | IP Logged |
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I get your point about Thai attitudes, but I also think there is reason for optimism. One interesting aspect of the coming AEC (ASEAN Economic Community) in 2015 is that there are more materials available for Thais to learn other Southeast Asian languages. Check out this blog, which seems to be promoting the Khmer language for Thai learners, featuring Khmer karaoke songs with Thai subtitles.
Khmer Language for Communication 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5123 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 37 of 69 02 February 2014 at 5:56pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for stopping by, viedums. Yes, there sure is reason for optimism. The last time I checked the language learning shelves in Kinokuniya in Bangkok, I was surprised about the variety of materials covering ASEAN languages. I hope increased levels of contact will lead to a gradual change in attitudes.
Thanks for the link. It's run by someone from Sisaket, the Khmer-speaking heartland of Thailand. I've got friends in the area adjacent to Preah Vihear. While everybody there speaks Khmer (well, a dialect, I guess), I haven't seen anything in written form (like street or temple signs), and my friends claim to be illiterate in Khmer. Maybe this is changing, but I doubt that schools in the area teach Khmer. Wouldn't it be a no-brainer for the government to promote bilingualism and Khmer literacy in those areas to advance trade and economic integration? Edited by Bakunin on 02 February 2014 at 5:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5123 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 38 of 69 13 February 2014 at 9:38pm | IP Logged |
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Thai is a beautiful language, I really enjoy it. I'm a morning person and the first 90 minutes of my day, usually starting around 5, are dedicated to Thai: typing and studying a few pages of a schoolbook and listening to the news; since about a month or so I've also included working through a news item on selfstudythai.com. That's the mainstay of my activities, but then there's the occasional phone call, whatsapp chat, lang-8 entry or email as well. Nothing too exciting to report here other than how much I enjoy this routine. I don't know where I'm going with Thai but this doesn't bother me at the moment.
Polish: I'm devouring book after book and am slowly getting used to the language. I want to read at least a million words, or better two, before I consider changing pace. I'm pretty busy at work these days, but I manage to read about 50 pages per day on average. Sometimes I read passages out loud, does anybody else do that too? I need to practice my Polish 'r', it's still a hit or miss and depends a lot on surrounding sounds. I'm afraid I bought more bad books than good ones, but recently I've been reading two excellent detective stories for kids: Detektyw Max by Simon Chesire (it's a series). I've made a mental note to buy more of those should I run out of books to read. Regarding the bad ones, I have no qualms about not finishing them. Life is too short to read crap. Tok FM have stopped uploading podcasts to iTunes but have instead published an app. It's looks good and has a lot to stuff to listen to, but I haven't figured out yet where to find my favorite programs. Being so busy at work, listening had to be cut back anyway; I often can't focus because my brain needs time to process work related stuff. French has fallen by the wayside. I delete most of the podcasts arriving on my phone every day and only manage to squeeze in an hour or two per week. It's a shame, but it is what it is. Here's an indicator of why I'm still 'studying' Polish (and will be for a while) but 'speak' Thai and French (according to my profile here on HTLAL): I can shadow Thai and French podcasts without tripping up too often, but I still can't shadow Polish. Being able to shadow random podcasts is a good indicator of intermediate proficiency, I believe, because in order to shadow you need to hear, comprehend, and produce language at native speed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6098 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 39 of 69 13 February 2014 at 11:25pm | IP Logged |
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I take my hat off to you again Bakunin! That's an impressive routine that you have been sustaining. To read 50 pages a day is great, and the sheer volume of words going through your brain is bound to do something positive. I try to read extensively, but sometimes whole passages of text are incomprehensible and I'm tempted to pause and investigate. Maybe I'm reading material a wee bit too advanced for comfort. I think my next book will be one of the books I recently bought from GREG publishing as they are aimed for a younger readership.
I know what you mean about the time it takes to shadow Polish podcasts - I'm not there either. I can hear most individual words, I recognise a lot of them, but my brain has a problem gluing them into a comprehensible whole! Progress seems to be measured over months (even years) rather than weeks, but at least I'm noticing progress. I hope to buy loads of books in Wrocław and post them back to Scotland, as it's cheaper than paying the airline's excess charge. Alfred Szklarski will not be among them! Pozdrawiam serdecznie. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5123 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 40 of 69 15 February 2014 at 11:30pm | IP Logged |
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@Mooby: My experience is that once I start 'investigating', I never finish the book; moreover, I won't experience flow. I believe in order for extensive reading being a success (i.e., true reading for pleasure; learning then happens automatically and doesn't have to be managed) it's crucial to select material which is easy. Nation suggests 98% and above coverage rate, and my own experience confirms this (above is better, by the way). I'm prepared to read children's books to get there, but it seems to me that you don't enjoy that. That's fine, I don't think extensive reading is a sine qua non for language learning. After all people have been learning languages for thousands of years without being able to read at all. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
I'm not sure if the GREG books are easier. I bought a few and had to put them onto the stack of 'difficult books to be read later'. You're certainly right that progress is measured in years, not months. As for shadowing, a precondition for me is that I have near-total comprehension, obviously. With Polish, I'm not there yet. Once I'm at this stage, it's a matter of getting my processing and production up to speed. That can still require a good amount of time. I'm not sure how beneficial shadowing really is, but I do it regularly with Swiss German, and occasionally with English, French and Thai. I'm a bit more engaged and more likely to notice details than when I just listen. By the way, I also often post books back to Switzerland, usually choosing the slowest option. It's cheaper and less hassle. Packages from Poland have always arrived here in less than two weeks. It takes longer from Thailand. French: Last saturday's edition of Concordance Des Temps was on Ukraine. The hour long program discusses Ukrainian history and is worth listening to. I learned a lot of stuff about Ukrainian history and also that the name of the country may be related to 'borderland', Polish kraniec (?). Hadn't occurred to me. Polish: I just finished the first book of Lemony Snicket's 'A Series of Unfortunate Events' (Seria Niefortunnych Zdarzeń: Przykry Początek). Weird stuff, dark and cynical. Highly recommended. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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