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srs, fsi, podcasts, l-r, shadowing | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4758 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes  Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 44 19 January 2014 at 12:54am | IP Logged |
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I updated the topic on this to better reflect what I'm doing this year
Despite my best intentions, I recently bombed out again about a fourth of the way through fsi. FSI makes sense if you have a dedicated hour or so a day to study without interruption. I went through about three weeks where a combination of family and work responsibilities kept me from my dedicated hour a day. After that break, I just don't want to restart it. I never missed a day with anki, however. I had always thought of anki as an adjunct to my main study. I started to wonder if it shouldn't be the backbone. Roaming around the web led to ajatt and the "10000 sentence method". I realized that I had made a lot of bilingual novels when I was playing around with L-R and that it would be easy to get .csv files from them and put them in anki... I'm gong to try to learn 10000 sentences from a variety of novels and whatever other source I feel like putting in. I'm aware of mcd cards, and I may add some of them eventually. I also entered Spanish with Ease and Using Spanish into anki, and plan to at least finish them this year in the active and passive directions. At the very least I should know how to read novels independently by the end of the year. 7000 card should be easy if I don't quit; we'll see if I can get to 10000. by Dec 31. Edited by sfuqua on 31 August 2014 at 6:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4758 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 44 26 January 2014 at 11:55pm | IP Logged |
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OK, an update.
Since the main thing I would like to do next is to learn to read novels, I've entered sentences into anki from 21 different novels. I haven't read the novels completely, or anything; I just looked for sentences with unknown words and entered them into anki. My reading level is low enough that finding hard sentences is easy. I have plenty of cards, and I could run through them at an increased pace at this point, since I don't have many reviews built up yet. I have 405 cards that are either mature, or in the learning stage. this is below the pace I need to maintain if I am going to cover 10000 cards by the end of the year. I don't want to get to ambitious now and kill myself with too many reviews later. AJATT suggests that 50 cards a day (and 500 reviews!?) may be possible. Results from this are immediate and dramatic; I think I will be able to read a typical book in Spanish well before 10000 sentences. There is a very nice feeling when running through a given sentence a few days later; the sentence rolls off the tongue and the meanings of each of the words seems to get a little clearer. I L-R books whenever I get a spare moment, after anki is through for the day. I need to do some shadowing. In a month or two, when I start to get a substantial number of sentences in my head, we'll see how this works. The schedule is easy to maintain, and I'm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5858 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 3 of 44 27 January 2014 at 5:15am | IP Logged |
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I hope the reason that last sentence got cut off is 'cuz you realized you wanted to go study or read :D
500 reviews a day sounds like a killer. Personally i'd rather spend that time reading new stuff, but i have been there before. It generally results in me dropping the deck in a fit of frustration, but at least i had that much more vocab floating around my head! Anyway, good luck and i hope you enjoy reading Spanish literature, i really love written Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4758 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 4 of 44 27 January 2014 at 6:30am | IP Logged |
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No, I didn't do a Bach's Contrapunctus XIV(or whichever one he died in the middle of); I'm not sure why the message cut off.
I plan to monitor how much time and effort I'm putting in on this stuff, and I fully intend to cut back when I need to. L-R is excellent to do along with a bunch of sentences in anki. I did about 4000 anki cards the last six months of last year. I got pretty good at conjugating Spanish verbs, and I got a couple of thousand words into my deep, deep passive knowledge. Working with individual grammar points and lexical items seems pretty distant from actually using the language. I will back off on new cards and reviews long before I go crazy. Working with whole sentences seems more natural, it seems easier, and it seems more effective. There is research that shows that a learner needs to see a word in context 6 to 22 times before the learner "knows" it. It seems to me that word lists just get you through that first exposure. Looking at sentences and understanding them "feels" like it is making the lexical items sink in each time the sentence comes up. Reading the sentence aloud "feels" like it is increasing fluency. I find using sentences in anki easier than using word lists, and I find it more effective. I'll know more in a month or two whether it is really more effective. I think there is a combination of sentences in anki, shadowing, and L-R which I can maintain forever, with steadily increasing "fluency" and little pain. I hope to eventually (mostly) replace this with reading aloud. I'll see as I go along. Once I pass a certain threshold of "ease" with reading, I think I may have trouble keeping up the interest in anki sentence lists... :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5858 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 5 of 44 27 January 2014 at 6:58am | IP Logged |
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I've always wanted to try sentences, but haven't found a good way to go about it. What i tend to do is cram lots and lots of words in the beginning, get fed up with all the reviews, and just switch to reading. Then i feel guilty about skipping all the unknown words and the cycle starts again. Fortunately it seems to be much easier to remember words as i get better in a language, perhaps because i've likely seen them several times before and everything sounds less foreign?
How do you decide which sentences go in? Do you put any extra information into it (translation, definitions for difficult words, grammar explanations, etc.)? And to mark it as correct, do you just base it on whether or not you get the overall meaning of the sentence or are you much stricter? I think pulling some simple Basque sentences from songs would be fun. And i agree that you really need to see a word used quite a few times before getting a good idea what exactly it means, i've just used vocab studying as a shortcut to jump into reading, where i pull context from. I really do hate trying to put a definition to words... Anyway, i look forward to seeing your progress and hopefully i can take away a few pointers :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4351 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 6 of 44 27 January 2014 at 7:36am | IP Logged |
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I didn't know about the 10000 sentence method, but it makes sence. Learning in contect is important. I wouldn't know how to count them! Is it enough though, and how far does it get you? Does it allow you to be creative with the language in the end?
Good luck and keep it up! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4861 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 7 of 44 27 January 2014 at 2:36pm | IP Logged |
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If possible, I'd recommend that you add audio to your sentences. It really helps a lot with listening comprehension and speaking.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5525 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 44 27 January 2014 at 2:58pm | IP Logged |
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If you're good with computers, the easiest way to make audio cards is to find a movie with accurate Spanish subs, and to spend a weekend kicking Handbrake + subs2srs into submission. Then throw away 90% of the cards on first review.
By the way, if you have access to Spanish ebooks, I actually have some potentially useful tools in beta-test. Basically, the idea is that you use the "highlight" function in your ereader, and then you upload your highlight file into a web tool. From there, all you need to do it highlight a word and click a button, and it will automatically bring up a dictionary page. When you're done, there's an Anki plugin that will import everything straight into an Anki deck. You can use images, cloze deletions, etc., without any problems. This is about a million times more efficient than trying to enter everything by hand, because you can just read extensively and mark sentences, then go back later to make a big stack of cards. Anyway, if this sounds interesting, PM me with your email address and I'll give you full access. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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