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French A0-B1 in 3 months | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4137 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes  Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 9 of 22 20 June 2014 at 3:28am | IP Logged | ||
You're absolutely right. I was much too hasty to say that B1 was possible without qualifying my statement. I should have said that I think s/he'd be able - with lots of conversational practice beforehand - to meet the minimum requirements for the living arrangements. Or, as you said, to "fake" a B1 in a social situation. I teach full-time French classes, and many of my students could chat informally at a B1 level with native speakers after a few months. Of course, that's not the same as being able to pass a full B1 test, which would be very difficult for most of them. Edited by Stelle on 20 June 2014 at 3:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5558 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 10 of 22 20 June 2014 at 10:43am | IP Logged | ||
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Like Jeffers, I also agree that only 2 hours per day is a pretty tall order for B1 in 3
months. 2 hours a day would be more like 3 years. In my opinion, the key, once one is able to speak sentences, is to find a victim to speak with - regular speaking is necessary to join up of all the parts. No amount of Pimsleur or Assimil or French in Action will make up for that. Another thing about French in Action, from my experience, is that to really get the most out it, one has to do the Workbook exercises in an almost FSI like manner - i.e. go through the observations and exercises in each lesson a good few times. FIA's eminently comprehensible progression quickly lulls you into the belief that because one can understand each lesson, one can use the language - but in my experience, that is not the case. At least for me, understanding is just the necessary base for the hard work of production. As to CEFR level - one can always test one self here: http://www.bonjourdefrance.co.uk/learn-french-online/delf-pr eparation.html Edited by Elexi on 20 June 2014 at 7:31pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5525 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 22 20 June 2014 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just a quick reminder: Logs are personal space for recording progress, and it's no fun to have your first post greeted with over a page of people saying, "Your plan won't work!" I had that happen to me on a French Egyptology forum, and I found it rather annoying, especially since my plan was actually working pretty well at the time. :-)
Anyway, sygi, here are some numbers from Wikipedia. I think these are pretty accurate up through about B1, but after that, I suspect these numbers assume an increasing amount of exposure "outside class."
Anyway, make of it what you will, and good luck with your project! Edited by emk on 20 June 2014 at 6:35pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4902 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 12 of 22 20 June 2014 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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1. I don't think anyone said his plan won't work. Sygi himself said his ideal goal is
unrealistic. We're trying to give him realistic advice to achieve his stated needs. 2. He asked for feedback. As sygi is new, he probably didn't expect to get such an avalanche of feedback! But sygi, you should know that the advice of most people here is accompanied by a lot of goodwill. We want you to do well when you start your studies in September. I've kept this short so as to avoid continuing to derail the log. As a result it probably comes off a bit "short", but I don't mean to be rude. But, as Emk says, good luck! Also, work hard and have fun! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5002 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 13 of 22 20 June 2014 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think the plan is unreasonable at all. Assimil and FIA are certainly great sources and duolingo seems
to be working fine for some htlalers. 2 hours of studying a day should do it, if you don't count in the extra activities, which are less intensive. Given the fact I have some experience with French and I've seen far too many people around fail and only some win, I'd have a few recommendations: 1. Take the time at the beginning and get the pronunciation right. Don't get overstressed about "r" and other small details, which is what discourages many learners, but don't make basic mistakes. Focus on things that change the meaning. Reading "u" "ou" "eu" is different. French is a beautiful language but the natives tend to be among the most critical ones in the world. So, listen a lot. Repeat after the Assimil. If you have a bit of time, doing the pronunciation drills from the beginning of the FSI course might make a world of difference. 2. Listen a lot. Get extra listening practice during the day. Music is a great tool here. So are the assimil lessons in an mp3 player 3.Should you feel the need to get further grammar explanations than the bits in your assimil lesson, go for it. French grammar is fairly logical and many courses make it more difficult than necessary by chopping it in too small pieces. Just an overview od how does a piece fit into the puzzle can make it easier to learn the piece. 4. You have chosen good resources, now stick with them. Get through them and don't second guess yourself. Pimsleur is nice but not that useful for a non English native because it expects you to have their troubles. I think Polish is an easier starting point for French than English actually, bu that is just my theory. So what I meant: don't waste time on changing sources, you don't have that much of it. The only thing I believe you might find useful would be a good quality grammar book with more exemples and exercises but that is not necessary. Other than that: don't let other things tempt you to leave the path. There are millions of websites, courses of various quality, cds, tools. You cannot use them all. 5. Have i meantioned tons of listening? I have. And i could repeat it a hundred times more and for a good reason. Listening to your assimil lessons on the go during the day can be very helpful. 6. Anki may seem dry to you but it can significantly speed up the process of memorising the vocabulary. There is even a ready made assimil french deck you can download without any time loss 7. For the extra time, outside your 2 intensive hours a day, there is a lot you can do for your french while having fun. If you have an alliance francaise nearby, go to their library for graded reeaders, bds and so on. Extra input always helps 8. Get practice, if possible. However, don't expect a flood of eager exchange partners in order to avoid disappointment. Our English native friends talk about it as if it was the easiest thing in the world to find an exchange partner. For them, it is. For us with less popular native languages, it is different. So, look for someone but be prepared to persevere. 9. Not only until you find a partner, work on your speaking alone as well. Get ready for the real situation. Repeat after audio, do your exercises out loud, speak to yourself. Thinking and whispering won't do. I wish you good luck, lots of success and lots of fun on the path. Im looking forward to following your log 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5558 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 14 of 22 20 June 2014 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you are going to use French in Action - I really recommend downloading Quizlet and
using the vocabulary sets uploaded by a user called 'drbarb' (not me btw) - They go to about lesson 34 and contain only the core vocabulary (about 30-45 words a lesson). I find that Quizlet is the best app for learning vocabulary from scratch and that by going through the FIA sets really drills the vocabulary. Quizlet's games help you review without the tedium of SRS (which can, obviously be very useful as well). 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sygi Diglot Newbie Poland Joined 5139 days ago 11 posts - 16 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Esperanto Studies: French | Message 15 of 22 20 June 2014 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Salut!
Merci pour vos responses! I didn't expect so many replies at all. They made me even more motivated and were nice too ;) Thanks! B1 stuff: As Stelle said, Je ne dois achieve real B1 with all writing, reading or passing any test. Just my place requires people have a command of French and suggest that B1 level is appropriate. (I hope they don't throw away students who can't answer simple questions in French :P) I think it's fair (and fun) to try my best to reach that level. Listening/plan: I had a possibility to listen un lecon of pimsleur and didn't like it at all :( It was too much repetitive = boring for me. Based on your answers, I also decided to put aside Duolingo un peu, mais c'est hard, parce que, c'est très addictive. But you are right, Assimil and FIA > Duolingo, as my biggest aim is develop listening and speaking skills. Time: Je ne peux pas dire exactly how much time daily I'm going to spend, as I expect this to vary. I know this is mauvais, but I can't help it :( But probably I will disponse of my most waking time until July and then have about 2-3 hours in working days and whole weekends. Language partner: I understand that language partner can help me a lot, but, as Cavesa said, I don't expect it to be easy to find. I will try to find some francophone in a place where I'll work. Meanwhile, I asked a French-speaking friend for a conversation before I'll leave ;) Log stuff (finally!): I listened to 3 episodes of le journal en francais facile. Je comprends seulement single (simple) words of of it, but I think spending 10 minutes on it a day won't do a harm. Alors que j'ecoute ils, je lis ils aussi. I did two Assimil lessons. They were very slow comparing to FIA and RFI. I understood most of it. I think I will skim through the first few easy lessons fast (listening to them only once) to get to ~5 lesson and then listen them more times and repeat. I also did the exercises I listened to the first audio of FIA and then did the whole second ( deuxieme?) lesson: I watched video, listened to audio, looking at the transcript and did the exercises. It was une experience intensif - it took me more than hour to finish it all. Video was nice, and, in general, I like the idea of the 'teaching story' (I saw it once in Esperanto = Pasporto al la Tuta Mondo - it was nice ;). I guess I understood more than was expected to and it was nice, but at the end when le profeseur expected to repeat (or answer) I wasn't sure what he expects me to do :( On the other hand exercises were a bit boring. I also did a few (~5) Duolingo lessons. Thank you again for your answers ;) Sorry for making the post so long and for writing boring personal opinions about materials I used, but it is a language log after all :P Edited by sygi on 20 June 2014 at 9:42pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4902 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 16 of 22 20 June 2014 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Au contraire, we enjoy the personal details about materials people use. It's the experience of others which guides me in my choices of materials to use. As for Duolingo, if you like it then use it. I think it is quite good, and will work well in combination with your other resources.
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