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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3481 of 3959 08 January 2014 at 11:18am | IP Logged |
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For your information: the inventive druid Panoramix dispensed a potion to the Pictish person which gave him the ability to speak - and given that Asterix and Obelix then understood not only him, but later also his fellow men in faraway Northern Caledonia it seems that the authors have chosen to regard Pictish as a Celtic language close to Gaulish. NB: it must be assumed that a village in Bretagne at that time would have been Gaulish-speaking, even though the Modern Breton language is Brythonic (i.e. in the same group as Kymric and Cornish, but that is usually explained as the result of a later invasion from Britain). So it is hard to see how there could have been much intercomprehensiility between Celts of any kind in Caledonia/Scotland and people in Bretagne at the time of Caesar. Furthermore the modern Goidelic language known as Gaelic is the result of an invasion from Ireland, but south of a line between Edinburgh and Glasgow people once spoke 'British', i.e. a Brythonic language. In other words modern Scotland once had two competing Celtic commmunities plus the Picts, and whether those Picts represented a third Celtic option or something much older is totally unclear. Any way: to make the Picts wear tartans and being comprehensible to Asterix and Obelix requires a considerable amount of poets' licence. The only truly Pictish element is the mysterious rock carvings which you can see for your self in both the British Museum in London and in the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburrae.
And no, Goscinny and Uderzo didn't make write this volume in the series (Goscinny is dead and Uderzo apparently has retired) - the original text was written by Jean-Yves Ferri, probably in French, and translated into Dutch/Flemish by Franz von der Heide. The drawings were made by Didier Conrad. Nothing lasts forever - just like the great Carl Barks, who left it to others to draw Donald Duck & co. from 1966 on onwards, but who still is venerated by loyal fans. I actually read a Dutch book about him at the library in Utrecht, and it was shocking to see some information about the absolutely rotten working and salary conditions the artists in the Disney company had. Did you know that Carl Barks received a fixed low payment per strip so he couldn't permit himself to get ill, and he even had to pay his own pension - all earnings from his drawings go to the company, and the one and only inventor of uncle (Mac)Scrooge and most of the other characters in the series except MIckey Mouse and Donald Duck had to live on that pension - not a cent went to the man who really did the job. And there is 'forbidden list' of original Barksian strips which can't be republished before the business people have had politically correct versions produced of them. As if Mona Lisa couldn't be shown publicly until the clerks at the Louvre had had some local crook repaint her face in a less ambiguous style. Edited by Iversen on 08 January 2014 at 1:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4645 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 3482 of 3959 08 January 2014 at 7:50pm | IP Logged |
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I liked the Scottish post. I actually had a course in Scottish literature last year and I understood 90% of it despite never having actually learned Scottish.
Do you know Gaelic, Iversen? It's long fascinated me... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3483 of 3959 09 January 2014 at 3:10pm | IP Logged |
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I'm trying to learn Irish right now, and until I feel I'm on secure ground there it would be foolhardy also to study Gaelic. And as far as I know this language is even more endangered than Irish, and I have already one Scottish project running, namely my attempts to learn some Laeland Scots.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4822 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 3484 of 3959 09 January 2014 at 4:55pm | IP Logged |
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Iversen,
Are there any famous, long-running Danish cartoon strips? I mean the sort of thing that everyone in Denmark would recognise right away, even if their fame hasn't spread outside Denmark). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3485 of 3959 10 January 2014 at 11:51am | IP Logged |
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What about Donald Duck? I have read somewhere that a lot of strips from the post-Barks epoch actually were made in Denmark - but I'm not a certified Donaldist, so you shouldn't take my word for it.
We have a number of very capable cartoonists who mainly cater for the newspapers, but in some cases they 'best works' have appeared as books. The towering figure from the past is Storm P (Robert Storm Petersen) -, long dead, but still venerated with a whole museum in his honour in Copenhagen. Later ones like Bo Bojesen don't have their own museum, but you can se some of their drawings on the internet, and their 'best works' have been published as books when they have become popular enough. But I doubt that any of those "greatest of.." books have left Denmark, partly because political satire is most funny when you know the situations and persons it refers to. A cartoonist named Carsten Gråbæk made a series named "Statsministeren" (the prime minister), whose central figures were modelled on the then reigning prime minister Schlüter, the queen and others - and it continued even after the demise of Mr. Schlüter. There are also less political cartoons like those of Nikoline Werdelin, just to name one, and again the pattern is that they are publicized in newspapers or other periodicals (which keeps the artist alive), and then some of the material may get published later as books. One special case is Claus Deleuran, who started a whole series about the Danish history, but unfortunately he died in 1996 in the midst of the Viking period (vol. 9 in the series). I would also like to mention another of my personal favorites, Rune T. Kidde, who died last year and who became blind due to diabetes. He made succulently nasty parodies (named 'Ækle Æventyr') of some popular fairy tales, like "Den lilla møghætte og Pulven" (normally called "Den lille Rødhætte og ulven"). NB: the version on Youtube is NOT representative of his style - don't watch it. Try instead this one, although you need to be a fairly advanced learner to understand the words (you won't find "dunderdillerdasker" in any Danish dictionary). Kidde even published a book with one cartoon strip for each of the great works of the world literature, and that has saved me alot of reading time which otherwise would have been wasted on reading thousands of pages in languages I already know. I gave it as a present to my mother, whom I shall visit in the upcoming weekend, and then I'll write down some of the descriptions for your information so that you also can take a shortcut to the big literary masterpieces. But without pictures as only a few drawings have made it to the internet and I don't want to be sued for violations of the copyright. Another place to look for Danish cartoons is the issues of the satirical cartoon magazines which promptly arrive just before Christmas every year: Blæksprutten, Svikmøllen and some local ones - I faintly remember one named something like Bjæsken, but I haven't checked the offers lately*. As far as I can see these publications stick to paperbound volumes rather than giving their materials away on the internet. But I suppose that all this functions in the same way in many other countries. Our language( and cultural sphere) is just less exportable, and the editing houses guard their materials in a fairly restrictive way. Actually I just found out that there IS a museum for newspaper cartoons in Denmark, but it only has regular expositions in the national library "Den Sorte Diamant" in Copenhagen - it doesn't have its own private venue, unlike those in London, Bruxelles and Groningen. * Edit: "Bjæsken" stopped after 40 years in 2012 Edited by Iversen on 12 January 2014 at 9:05pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3486 of 3959 12 January 2014 at 10:27pm | IP Logged |
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I have tried to find the literary survey by mr. Kidde both at my mother's place and in my own flat, but so far without success (although I did find a few other interesting things, like an old Asterix in Greek, which I apparently must have bought as a souvenir since I definitely couldn't read it back then). My mother and I both have way too many old magazines lying around, and for my own part I think I'll have to sort them after age, language and genre soon. Otherwise it'll be impossible ever to find anything specific in the piles.
However during my excavations I hit upon a number of magazines by another essential Danish cartoonist who recently went on pension, namely Olfax, who invented the strip "Egoland" - but for once I can link to an obituary page with some morsels from this exquisite series. The central idea is that God the Almighty takes a job on a faraway planet named the Earth, and consequently he finds himself in the local madhouse where he tries to convince the psychiatrists that he really is God ("Divus") - at least for this planet. GR: Βρήκα επίσης "Αστερίξ ο γαλάτης: Η Διχονοια" σε μια έκδοση του 1993 ('La Zizanie'. με κειμένα του Goscinny και σχεδιά του Uderzo), έτσι τώρα έχω κάτι σχετικό υλικό για να διαβάσετε στα Ελληνικά - είχα ξεχάσει τα πάντα σχετικά με αυτό το φυλλάδιο γιατί δεν κατάλαβα γρι όταν τον αγόρασα. Και αυτή τη φορά σχεδόν το καταλαβαίνω - τόσο λίγο που έχω, μετά από όλα, έμαθα στα χρόνια που μεσολάβησαν. Είναι σχεδόν σαν να πάρει για ένα διπλό δώρο! Earlier today I had time to watch a bit of TV from Astra: first a one hour scientific program from Andalucia TV and afterwards a bit of Galician TV. SP: El programa andaluz se llamaba "Conciencia" y había muchas clips, entre otros sobre el tratamiento de aguas residuales por métodos biológicos, sobre estrellas ligeras y sobre la absorción del cuerpo de los aminoácidos. Sé muy bien que también hay ciencia en España, pero usted no lo creería solo por ver TVE Internacional. POR: Na verdade, eu deveria ter comentado sobre o programa galega no galego, mas infelizmente eu não domina esta relativo honroso do Português na tierra espanhol, embora parte da idéia do galego parece ser escrever no portugues i adicionar alguns estrangeirismos de empréstimo espanhól e uma pilha de x'as. Neste program eu ví um monte de detalhes de um presépio mecânico da escala pródigo, que a cada ano fica estabelecido pelos membros da "Associação dos amigos de Belén" numa cidade chamada Valga (que eu não conhecia antes a esta transmissão). Antes de fazer isso eu também vi partes do programa "Ti que tocas" realizado no galego - e entendeu a maioria, se eu me concentrei. Mas alguns detalhes me escapou. Por favor preencha vôce mesmo os x que faltam: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Edited by Iversen on 12 January 2014 at 11:48pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3487 of 3959 13 January 2014 at 10:57am | IP Logged |
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GR: Εχω διαβάσει μερικές σελίδες και αντιγραειψ / μελέτησει τις εισαγωγικές περιγραφές προσώπων του ξαναβρήκε Αστερίξ μου χθες το βράδυ. Kαι πήγε αρκετά καλά. Ωστόσο, θεωρώ ότι είναι προβληματικό το γεγονός ότι το κείμενο είναι γραμμένο με κεφαλαία γράμματα, πράγμα που σημαίνει ότι δεν υπάρχουν ενδείξεις προφορά.
I have copied/studied the introductory character descriptions in my newly rediscovered Asterix in Greek and peeked into the following pages, and it seems that the text is just about the right level for me - i.e. I can read it and understand most of it so well that it could be used as extensive reading, but on the other hand not so well that I can't use it for intensive studies. The main problem is that it feels tough to read a text with only capital letters and no accents when you are used to the usual combination af upper and lower case with three accents. Apart from that I made a Russian wordlist yesterday, but the rest of the time went with English TV programs and studies of the chaotic calamities that may ensue upon an update from Windows 8.0 to Windows 8.1 - it killed my sister's internet connection so she couldn't even study the problem herself because she hadn't got an internet connection! I did some preliminary research into the problem, but I don't have Windows 8.x myself (and am happy with that!) so I can't tell her what to do over an the telephone - she'll have to contact a specialist now. Buggers! It cost me at least an hour of surfing and my sister is still in shock mode. I also found time to write a 'postcard' for my travel club, but I still haven't written a real travelogue and made city maps over my meandering peripatics in the low countries. It's hard to be a tourist - even after the voyage! Edited by Iversen on 13 January 2014 at 11:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6697 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3488 of 3959 13 January 2014 at 11:42pm | IP Logged |
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PLATT: Dat het sneet hüüt, en in de Bus torüch vun mien Arbeit to mien Wohnung see de Föhrer dat er un sien Fohrtüüg een halve Stüün te laat wören, aver dat wörr ik ok, so allens wörr OK. Ik höff wat Platt leest. Vun Kieler Nachrichten: "Modernes Platt - wat is dat?" Perfesser Elmentaler vun de Nedderdüütsche Afdeelen an de Kieler Uni hett Fraagebogens mit 21 Fraagen to Lüüd in 160 Dorpen in Schleswig-Holsteen, die öller wören as sösstig Johren oder twüschen 18 en 30 Johren. Sodennig hett er happt sowohl Generatschoon-Ünnerscheeden as regionale Ünnerscheeden te opdecken, en dit wöör angevlich die eerste sölke Ünnersöken na 50 Johren. Een Eberhard Zwirner hett twüschen 1950-1960 in diesülve 160 Dorpen Dialektopnahmen maakt, aver "dat Materiol is aver nienich utwertet wurrn" (!!!). Is Hr. Zwirner denn batz bums dood in 1960? Het sien Kinner die Opnamen utmaakt en hoogdüütsche Leeder an sien stääd maakt? Wat is daar afloopt?
In my bus-back-home-work today - which according to the driver came half an hour late, but right on time for me - I read a couple of texts in Low German, including one from Kieler nachrichten 2012 about a scientific study of not only dialectal, but also generational differences in Low German as it is spoken here and now - allegedly the first such study in 50 years, according to the article. A professor Elmentaler from the University in Kiel has contacted old and young Plattschnackers in 160 villages - the same villages which were used for a collection of dialect recordings which however never has been evaluated (maybe the idea is to analyse those recordings now to see the development since then, but the article isn't quite specific about this possibility). One aspect of this study is to have a look at the grammar, in contrast to just about all other dialectal research which traditionally has focussed on pronunciation and words or expressions. Edited by Iversen on 26 January 2014 at 12:34am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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