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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2857 of 3959 12 March 2012 at 11:51am | IP Logged |
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sp: Ayer por la tarde veía la televisión como de costumbre, y pasó un poco al azar por TVE Internacional. En sí mismo no es raro que hayan programas sobre españoles en el extranjero o extranjeros en España o algo similar en la tarde - y esto es bueno porque en estas emisiones se habla el lenguaje hablado y yo conozco algunos de los sitios. Sin embargo, las emisiones regulares de divulgación científica son poco frecuentes en TVE, así que me sorprendió un poco volcar acidentalmente en un buen programa de producción española sobre los homínidos extintos - de los Australopithecinos hasta el Homo antecessor, ancestro probable de Homo heidelbergensis y quizá Homo neanderthalensis. Vivió hace unos 800 000 años y se lo ha hallado en España en la provincia de Burgos (yacimiento de Gran Dolina). En Dmanisi en Georgia se ha hallado un especie aún mas viejo, normalmente definido como Homo ergaster, però en este programa llamado Homo georgicus. En el hecho yo visitó un museo en Tbilisi en 2000 y habló allí con uno de los paleontólogos involucrados en las excavaciones, y ella hablaba de Homo ergaster, que es una versión temprana del Homo erectus. No sé quién ha inventado el nombre 'georgicus', pero ya hay bastante nombres, y talvez ya sea la hora de remar un poco en la terminología en vez de siempre inventar nuevos nombres de especies. Por lo demás era un excelente espectáculo, y de un tipo que TVE seria bienvenido a cultivar.
Yesterday evening I watched a program about prehominids and early human species at TVE Internacional. This station doesn't send many popular science programs of this type, and in the late evening I had expected to see something about Spaniards abroad or 'abroadians' in Spain (which is OK, especially if I have been to the relevant places myself), but then I just stumbled over this gem of a program. Spain actually has someting to show in this field. Not only the last Neanderthal seems to have died in a cave near Gibraltar (OK, English territory, but...), but at Gran Dolina the Spanish paleontologists have found the second oldest hominid in Europe, Homo Antecessor, probably ancestor of Homo Heidelbergensis and neanderthalensis. The oldest is of course the Homo ergaster of Dmanisi in Georgia, but that's geographically not really a part of Europa, being to the South of the Caucasus. In this program this last species was called Homo georgicus, but when I accidentally got the chance to speak to one of the paleontologists in Tbilisi who was involved in the excavations she referred to the species as Homo ergaster ('working' man), an early version of Homo erectus who still made primitive 'one stroke' stone tools. Maybe it was about time to rationalize the terminology in this area rather than inventing new names all the time! Edited by Iversen on 12 March 2012 at 1:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2858 of 3959 12 March 2012 at 2:01pm | IP Logged |
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LAT: In filo "Name a Language That... GAME" ("Linguam nominate quae... ludus") referentia ad articulum Wicipaediae anglicae datur de linguarum extinctarum. Hoc modo ego ad articulum Vicipediae latinae "De Latinitate" pervenit, id est: consilia qualitatis articulorum ipsae Vicipediae. Se alicui paret HTLALem rigidissime moderatum esse, forsitan praecepta in praesumpta democratica Wikipedia digna sunt studium. Et Latine sermone dicta, etiam quam disciplina legenda utila sunt.
"Paginae aliis linguis scriptae delendae sunt." Videtur contributores vere existere qui credunt articula exempli gratia in linguis romanis permissa sint. Nihilominus articula talia delenda sunt! "Si nos Hispanica sapientia vis impertiri, age ad Vicipaediam Hispanicam te confer." (hehe!) "..machinae interpretes commentationes aliis ex linguis in Latinam convertere nequeunt". Ego periclitus sum translatorem Googlei latinam, et pessima est. Credo structuram sententiam tipicam lingvae latinae diffilissima sit programmaturae computralis in modo statistica fundata, quia verbum ordinis non ut criterium credibile est, texta hodierna absunt et sententiae in lingua latina saepe saepe contortiplicatissimae sunt. "Paginae sermone tam malo conscriptae ut animi oculique usorum in eis offendant sunt delendae." Ergo "{{tiro}} addunt tirones paginis novis a se scriptis" se quareant opera sua non in purgamentum iri. Et tirones omnes sumus, credo.. {{tiro}} Edited by Iversen on 12 March 2012 at 2:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2859 of 3959 16 March 2012 at 12:38pm | IP Logged |
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RU: Вчера я изучил несколько языков, использование текстов, которые я использовал ранее и о котором я упоминал в этой теме. Я схватил мою русскую историю книгю с акцентом. В последний раз я изучал пассаж о русской культуре после Ивана III, а вчера я учился в начале рассказа Ивана III Грозного. Я ожидаю очень много крови на ближайшие пару страниц!
BA I: Mengenai bahasa indonesia Saya telah dibuka kembali panduan saya ke Singapura. Terakhir kali saya membaca restoran dan bar, tetapi sekarang saya membaca tentang sesuatu yang lebih menarik: museum-museum. Dan yang pertama adalah Museum Peranakan. 'Peranakan' hanya berarti keturunan, tetapi dalam prakteknya banyak digunakan mengenai segmen Cina dan India - bukan Melayu. SP: Además vi un programa en TVE sobre españoles que viven en Tanzania. Yo mismo he estado de vacaciones allí, pero no quería vivir allí. IT: Inoltre ho organizzato un soggiorno a Trapani in Sicilia - Ryanair ha introdotta una nuova linea da Billund in Jutlandia a Trapani, e devo evidentemente sfruttatare di questo. Ci sono anche linee nuove per Zadar in Croatia, Krakow in Polonia e Carcassonne in Francia. In cambio, la linea di Ryanair per Dublino è stato chiusa, e la linea di Air Lingus da Copenhaga è anche andato via, cosìcché quando andró a Gailimh per parlare esperanto più tarde quest'anno, volerò con SAS. Yesterday evening I studied a number of old sources: I went back to my Russian history book (the one with the accents)and copied/studied the first part of the chapter about a nice old chap named Ivan the Terrible. Afterwards I dug up my guidebook to Singapore in Bahasa Indonesia. I'm through all the boring restaurants and clubs and bars, so the passage I studied was about something more relevant, namely the Peranakan Museum which I visited during my last visit two years ago. Actually 'peranakan' just means descendant, but in practice it is primarily used about the Chinese population segment, but also about the Indian one - not about the Malays. In TV I watched among other things a program on TVE about Spaniards who live in Tanzania. I have visited several national parks there, and I liked it, but wouldn't want to live permanently in that country. But the Spaniards in the program were quite enthousiastic about it. Edited by Iversen on 16 March 2012 at 12:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2860 of 3959 19 March 2012 at 1:42am | IP Logged |
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It is late, and I'm not going to write much now. Besides I have visited my family most of this weekend, and of course that means less time to study.
In the trains Southwards and back I studied two books, one with French expressions plus my Irish Kauderwelsh, and during quiet moments during my visit I also managed to fill an A4 page with words and expressions from a TY Indonesian language guide. Because my vocabulary is steadily growing I can in many cases see how misleading the free translations in such a guide really are - but in other cases I can just have a vague suspicion which I can't check without a dictionary. Of course language guides aren't make to teach people languages, but in spite of the free translations you can still pick up some vocabulary and some constructions for later use, and they don't take up much space. I watched a TV program partly in Galician Saturday (thanks to my mother's new digital box), and because I already know a bit of Portuguese and Spanish it was fairly easy to follow. Afterwards I watched a program in Catalan, and here the experience went in the opposite direction: the program featured two rustic elderly persons whose language was quite hard to understand - much harder than the Catalan spoken by younger people and people living in towns. Which reminds me of a man at the reception in my hotel in Palma de Mallorca last year who spoke Mallorquin Catalan, and it took me several days to get accostumed to that. For instance the definite articles have the consonant s instead of l, just to mention one major difference - but it is still Catalan. There is also one single town on Sardinia where Catalan is spoken, and I have not visited it, but judging from things I have seen on the internet the dialect there has lots of u's in places where Standard Catalan has o. Speaking about dialects, I watched the things above alone because my mother and sister don't understand them, but we all like programs from zoos, and during this weekend we have watched zoo programs from Odense (in Denmark), München (Munich), Stuttgart , Berlin and Bremerhaven. As I have written before these programs also teach you something about local accents - such as the clipped final -n's in Stuttgart. Btw my mother likes to solve crosswords, and I help her with words in Latin and Greek. But this time there was also a Russian word. My mother is fairly used to my weird habits, but this time she did however raise an eyebrow when I grabbed a Russian micro dictionary from my bag, and she actually asked what else I had got there. But for once I only had brought one dictionary along. Edited by Iversen on 19 March 2012 at 3:54pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2861 of 3959 19 March 2012 at 3:48pm | IP Logged |
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I don't have my Irish dictionary or my (mediocre) grammar here, and I write in short pauses between other tasks, so bear with me - this will mostly be in English. But the message is that I have made new bilingual Irish-Danish resp. Irish-English texts for later scrutiny and copying.
I found the first text through an almost random search using Google - however unlike Google Translate Google Search doesn't recognize Irish so I just entered a combination of Irish words which rarely would turn up in an English text. And I was luckly to find a fairly easy specimen, namely the list of employees at a Gaelic school, and then I made an interspersed bilingual text with the help of Google Translate. And as you may know, Google Translate infuses its translations with a bit of unpredictability and recklessness so that you are pulled out of your comfort zone. I'll come back to that. I wanted one text more, and I chose the list of contributors to the speech synthesizer abair.ie, which already has a human-made English translation. But let's have a closer look at the selfportraits of the staff of the Gaelic School - I quote the first sentence in the first three presentations so that you don't believe that I just pick the worst blunders from the pack: IR: Tá aistrithe "Is mise Máire Ni Dhochartaigh, Príomhoide na Gaelscoile." mar "Jeg er ikke Mary Doherty, rektor for Gaelscoil." (I'm NOT the principal...) - déanta ag Google míthuiscint leis an "ní" in ainm! (Google Translate mistook the "ní" in the lady's name for a negation in the sentence) Tá aistrithe "Is mise Micéala Caldwell, múinteoir na Naíscoile" mar "Med venlig Jeg er Micéala Caldwell, den børnehavepædagog." (= with friendly I am M.C, that nursery teacher) - ba chóir an t-aistriúchán gur bheith ar ndóigh mar seo: "Jeg er M.C., børnehavelærer ("Am I M.C., teacher of-the nursery" --> I'm MC, teacher at the nursery"). Agus arís: "Is mise Aisling Uí Dhúghaill" --> "Med venlig Dhúghaill drøm" (ach "My name's Dream Dhúghaill" má tá mé ag aistriúchán a aon abairt amháin in ionad an leathanach baile ar fad). (same error - but strangely enough the translation of the whole homepage is different from the translation of one sentence ) Táim an-bhuíoch do Google Translate do spraoi go léir agus fionraí. Thank you Google Translate for all the fun and excitement you have given me. But don't expect me to trust you. And also thanks to the friendly staff at Gaelscoil Uí Dhochartaigh. Edited by Iversen on 21 March 2012 at 11:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4700 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2862 of 3959 19 March 2012 at 5:17pm | IP Logged |
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Iversen, I have a question: do you decide the language in which you write each part of this log randomly, or is it linked to a topic you're writing on? f.e. if a zoo programme is in German, does that elicit a comment in German here?
In other words, how and when do you decide when you will write shorter/longer texts in what language? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2863 of 3959 19 March 2012 at 6:23pm | IP Logged |
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I usually let my study objects decide which language I use (i.e. German zoo --> German), and because I also try to study my languages in rotation there will also be a rotation of languages in my log. If I haven't written in a language for some time I may even see that as a signal that I need to do something in that language. The message about Galician, Catalan and German TV should really have been in those languages, but it was late and I wanted to keep the message short - a multilanguage message with translation would have been longer.
Today I made some printouts in Irish and wrote about it. Irish is right now a high priority language for me because I'll visit Galway in Ireland later this year. Russian and Bahasa will typically be represented here after I have done text copies and intensive text studies, but the sources will be short and few because intensive text studies are notoriously slow. And it is hard to write something interesting at all about wordlists. In contrast my German, French, Spanish etc. messages will often be based on TV programs or things I read in the sci mags I buy during my holidays because I mainly keep these languages alive through extensive activities. Or I let input from readers like you decide - I'll always try to answer in the language in the question (within reason). I would also like to point out that I sometimes write in languages which I can't speak yet - in casu Irish. You can get a long way with a combination of digital or paperbased dictionaries, grammars and examples from textbooks/internet courses plus Google searches. Even Google translate can be used to propose ways to express certain things, but the result must be checked each and every time - the examples in my message above clearly show how cautious you have to be. For instance I wanted to write that "ní" in the principal's name had cheated Google translate - but Google translate simply refused to translate that. "Misunderstood", "fooled", "cheated" etc. were all ignored. Even the dictionaries on the internet had trouble with these words, so I can't be sure that my sentence in the message above is expressed in spotless idiomatic Irish. But the main point is that I learn a lot while searching. Edited by Iversen on 20 March 2012 at 10:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6696 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2864 of 3959 22 March 2012 at 2:13pm | IP Logged |
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I haven't written in my log for a couple of days, but that doesn't mean that I have done nothing - the problem was that most of the things I studied were the same ones as in the preceding days and I saw no compelling reason to continue babbling along about Ivan IV Groznyj and the museums of Singapore and the rustic texts in TY Irish. However I did make printouts in a number of languages like Africaans, Icelandic and Portuguese which I haven't spent enough time and effort on lately.
AF: Ek het egter tweetalige tekste geskep in 'n aantal tale, en alhoewel ek nog nie hierdie intensief bestudeer het nie, het ek 'n paar dinge opgemerk. Ek het byvoorbeeld 'n paar afdrukke met tekste over die Nasionale Museum van Bloomfontein wat 'n pragtige versameling van fossiele van bv. Karoo het. Ek lees ook dat Bloomfontein sy Zoo bedreig word met sluiting, wat baie hartseer sal wees. Maar die getal van die bronne vir hierdie dinge in Afrikaans is baie beperk in vergelyking met die aantal bronne in Engels. Ek het dieselfde indruk toe ek daarna gesoek vir webwerwe van koerante in Afrikaans om hierdeur n paar video's te vind om een bietjie Afrikaans te luister (vir die eerste keer in 2012). Kidon.com het 'n lys van 97 Suid-Afrikaanse koerante, maar baie min van hulle is op Afrikaans (en nog minder in die ander nasionale taal van Suid Africa). En tussen die eksepsies hetten sommige ongeldig skakels naar paginas onder 't webwerwe news24.com. I have made bilingual printouts in a number of languages, including Afrikaans, where I used some texts about the National Museum of Bloemfontein, which among things has fine collections about paleontology, including humanoid remains from Sterkfontein and mammalian reptiles from the Karoo. I also read about plans to close the zoo in Bloemfontein, which would be a more than lamentable loss for the city. But most sources about these things were in English, and when I afterwards turned to a list of 97 South African newspapers the picture was just as depressing: most were in English. Africaans came in as a far second, but the other national languages of South African were almost non-existant, probably because they mainly are used for speaking and not for reading. Edited by Iversen on 22 March 2012 at 2:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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