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Chung at work / Chung pri práci | ||
Tags: Azerbaijani | Uzbek | Turkic languages | Uralic Languages | Slovak | Comic Strip/Cartoon | Serbian | Serbo-Croatian | Ukrainian | Croatian | Endangered Language | Linguistics | Hungarian | Finnish | Turkish | Polish | Korean | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6590 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 281 of 541 18 February 2013 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There's no specific match coming (that i'm aware of) and in general it feels imperfective to me as a Slavic native speaker.
I'd say olemme jäämässä is more unusual than your original example:( if the focus is on the postpositions, how about "i didn't go (somewhere) because of the cold weather"? also I thought sans-serif meant Katritta is wrong because it's a proper noun, not because it's animate. isättä seems to be relatively common in google for example. Edited by Serpent on 18 February 2013 at 11:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7149 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 282 of 541 18 February 2013 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Another refinement then: abessive is unusual (or inappropriate?) for proper names.
I should have done as sans-serif suggested initially and use jäimme kotiin... after having changed the original sentence to past tense. That's easy enough to accommodate since I'm familiar with the simple past tense in all languages involved. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4552 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 283 of 541 19 February 2013 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
That the original English phrasing likely had the word branding iron in it, which was then rendered as polttava rauta by the Finnish translator--an odd choice, imho. The entire dialog sounds slightly "American" to me, though I can't say with confidence that I would have done a better job myself; snappy comic strips are not the easiest to translate.
I'd go with unusual; that much I can say with some certainty. Then again, the abessive is not exactly common to begin with, so I'm not sure where that leaves us. It might be prudent to wait until another native speaker corroborates my hunch, for that's all it is at this point. To reiterate, Katritta essentially sounds like without a Katri to me, which is not necessarily ungrammatical, but I don't think there's any neutral, matter-of-fact way to use it. In any case, let's keep in mind that I'm just one person, and an eccentric individual at that. ;-) Edited by sans-serif on 19 February 2013 at 10:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marikki Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5488 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Spanish, Swedish Studies: German | Message 284 of 541 19 February 2013 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Minäkin haluan työntää lusikkani soppaan!
"Olemme jäämässä kotiin kylmän sään takia" sounds fine, but it means "We are planning to/ we intend to stay home.." , there is still some uncertainty left. I think abessive is unusual, but not impossible for proper names. I could for example imagine seeing "Ensimmäinen joulu Katritta oli vaikein" in literary fiction. And after that also "Tuomas lähti Imatralle Katritta" :) "Oletko kotona ennen joulua?" (meaning "are you at home, not gone away") is ok although most people would choose the idiomatic expression "joulun alla" over "ennen joulua". "Oletko kotona joulun alla? Jos olet, tuodaan Katrin kanssa sinulle joulukukat." And last but not least: I would have used "kuuma rauta" instead of "polttava rauta" or even "polttorauta". "Polttavan kuuma" is an idiomatic expression but I think "polttava" alone is mostly used figuratively in expressions like "..tämän hetken polttavin kysymys politiikassa on.." . 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7149 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 285 of 541 25 February 2013 at 5:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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HUNGARIAN
I have finished Selection 4 of "FSI Hungarian Graded Reader". The text was another bland one this time about an apartment meant also to familiarize me with terms for furniture and appliances. The accompanying exercises involved changing singular forms to plural with requisite changes to verb concordance, negating sentences, and word order. Exercises on this last topic were quite tough for me since I still don’t have a full handle on Hungarian word order beyond the guideline that the focused element is that which immediately precedes the verb. I also completed a few more exercises from “Magyarországon szeretnék dologozni” in eMagyarul-2 which didn’t focus on any point in grammar. Instead the exercises dealt with listening comprehension, and were somewhat entertaining. 
(From Cinestar.hu) 1) "You’re going trick-or-treating dressed as a lumberjack? – I’m George Lucas, you idiot!" 2) "I thought that you like scary costumes. What’s so scary about George Lucas? – He’s planning to release all six Star Wars movies again [but] in retrofitted 3D." 3) "And this is frightening? – It’s pure horror! You ought to be writhing [in horror] from it. Peter, tell her that she should be writhing [in horror] from it! – Great lumberjack costume!" - ijesztget (ijesztgetni) “to frighten; dress up as a scary being”* - kész “ready; genuine; shocking, unbelievable”* - utólagosan “in hindsight; in a retrofitted manner” - ütős “loud; punchy; effective, successful” Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary). NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nouns only: nominative possessive for 3rd person singular) VERBS: 3rd person singular present tense (infinitive) ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given * The use of these words in the comic was new to me. I’ve associated ijesztgetni with raising prolonged fear in someone rather than going door-to-door to get candy on Hallowe’en. For kész and derivatives, I’ve been used to its meaning as “ready” or “done” (e.g. Kész a vacsora “[The] Supper is ready”). I didn’t know that it’s also used to mean “genuine” or colloquially “unbelievable”. *** SLOVAK I did my week's allotment of at least 3 pages from “Hovorme spolu po slovensky! B - Slovenčina ako cudzí jazyk” by working through pgs. 23-26 of the first textbook which consisted of more exercises on vocabulary related to leisure or spending vacation, and verbal aspect (specifically future tense). 
(From Snow Cherries from France: shooty) 1) “I saw you last about four years ago.” 2) “Open [please]” 3) “Does it hurt?” 4) “A-a-a” 5) “Uaaaaaaa!” 6) “You can’t come [in] [only] when something hurts you.” 7) “It hurts me the moment when I come here!!!” Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary) NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular) VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb]) ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given *** TURKISH I finished Unit 6 of “Teach Yourself Beginner's Turkish”. The unit's dialogues and notes introduced the copular suffix -dir/-dır/-dür/-dur, comparative and superlative, and the negating suffixes -ma/-me “not” and -siz/-sız/-suz/-süz “without”. The unit’s new vocabulary pertains to weather and seasons, days of the week, months, and dates. *** UKRAINIAN I did my week's allotment of at least 3 pages from “Modern Ukrainian” by working through pgs. 52-55. The exercises provided practice with using the accusative singular. I very much look forward to later chapters which presents topics on which I’m less at ease so that I feel that I’m really making progress. Nevertheless review is sometimes useful, and I am picking up vocabulary gradually by going sequentially in “Modern Ukrainian”. I still need to finish some homework for my class involving a bit of translation to Ukrainian. *** OTHER LANGUAGES The next deadline for Northern Saami is very near and since last month I’ve only managed to listen to the dialogues of Chapter 2 in “Davvin 3” a few times and read the accompanying notes on the simple past of “contracting” or dual-stemmed verbs for 3rd person singular and review on using the illative. The next entry will be a proper one for that language, and I also expect then to report on Finnish (and just maybe even BCMS/SC and/or Polish). ______  Edited by Chung on 25 February 2013 at 7:50pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5342 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 286 of 541 25 February 2013 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Just wanted to say that I always like your comic strips, obviously especially the Slovak and Hungarian ones, but the others too. It's a great idea, I admire your willingness of going to the effort of finding them and putting them on here with the notes.
By the way, do you know if 'Teach Yourself Complete Ukrainian' is any good? I usually quite like the Teach Yourself books and inspired partly by you, partly by the many Ukrainians in the Czech Republic and partly because it seems more exotic than Russian, I'm really feeling wanderlust towards Ukrainian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5159 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 287 of 541 25 February 2013 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Do you get those comic strips from different sources or from a common source, Chung? Online newspapers or something like that?
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7149 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 288 of 541 25 February 2013 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's not bad but it's not one of the best examples in the series (not that the competing "Colloquial Ukrainian" is better). My biggest gripe as it is for many courses in the TY and the Colloquial series is that the ratio of exercises to grammar taught is low compared to the best courses. Unfortunately, the inventory of learning material for Ukrainian isn't all that good despite its official status and relatively large body of native speakers by Slavonic standards. Even Slovak in my view is better served than Ukrainian and this has been true even before Slovakia joined the EU. There's some more information about Ukrainian courses in the Ukrainian profile including short reviews or links to them. About Ukrainian's exoticness, I'd say that Russian is more exotic. Ukrainian to me is a little bit as what you could get if a Muscovite were trying to express him/herself in a vague Polish-Slovak hybrid. You get stereotypical Eastern Slavonic traits in Cyrillic, pleophony (e.g. král, mléko ~ король, молоко) and limited to no copula (e.g. Já jsem Chung ~ Я Chung) with a substantial amount of lexicon that's more recognizable to a Pole or Slovak than a Russian (e.g. Dziękuję / Ďakujem ~ Дякую, (Ja) muszę pracować / (Ja) musím pracovať ~ Я мушу працювати) and the frequent shift of the *g to h that's observable in Czech, Slovak and Ukrainian among a few others (e.g. gniazdo ~ hniezdo / гніздo.) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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