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Shadowing: yay or nay? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6108 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes  Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 49 of 67 04 October 2009 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I don't think people argue for or against this.
No. Though given a choice, you often look for the optimal solution. If you get the same results with two possible methods, would you choose the harder one?
We want names! :-D
Who? Where?
I haven't either, so please explain. Unfortunately I self-imposed not to visit Prof. Arguelles's threads. EDIT: if this looks confrontational, it's just by express request by my dear friend J-Learner. :-) Edited by Leopejo on 04 October 2009 at 12:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| J-Learner Senior Member Australia Joined 6029 days ago 556 posts - 636 votes Studies: Yiddish, English* Studies: Dutch | Message 50 of 67 04 October 2009 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Thanks, as always Leo.
No, one wouldn't do the harder method. People sure seem to want to do the easier method and complain about less results though :D Me and Professor A. A. seems to be very similar in our learning methods. That and I've bothed to take the time to see what he has to say...something 90% of the people posting in this thread, haven't. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6108 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 51 of 67 04 October 2009 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Actually many people here *do* complain how most courses are getting too easy - or better, dumbed down. See the popularity in these forums of old versions of Assimil, Linguaphone or even Teach Yourself as compared to the modern versions. So, it's not looking for easy as much as it is looking for effective.
I saw once that guy walking up and down and muttering strange words on youtube? Was that shadowing? ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Ocius Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5589 days ago 48 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German, Ancient Greek Studies: French, Latin, Sanskrit | Message 52 of 67 04 October 2009 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I tried shadowing briefly, but found I have a similar issue with it as Iverson. When I start talking, I become too focused on the sounds I'm making to focus heavily on input, which, in my opinion, is far more important. I much prefer simple, repetitive L-R -- even while using Assimil, FSI, or other courses that can be used well for Shadowing.
Ultimately, it's probably a matter of preference. When I want to practice accent, I pause the tape and try to imitate the sound, then repeat the sentence and compare. When I want to practice input, I prefer to keep output out of it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5817 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 53 of 67 22 October 2010 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I started shadowing for about about 2 weeks in Korean in a manner similar to how the
professor did it (but not outside). Two native speakers who saw me frequently commented that my pronunciation had increased a lot. Shadowing helped me pay attention to the intonation and 'way' of speaking Korean that I wouldn't get from a classroom or CDs. It also might it easier to see that no matter how good some non-Koreans might get with the language, there are certain parts of Korean that you won't pick up unless you really pay attention to how it's spoken. I might try it again soon because I'm still not 100% on the intonation (or lack of) and the prosody or I might just wait till I buy some Korean Dvds. I never did it with Spanish but I'm going to try it soon and see if it helps. (in case anyone's curious I used '2000 Essential Korean Words for Beginners' by Darakwon for the Korean shadowing) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 54 of 67 22 October 2010 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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) still don't shadow. I'm fairly sure it is effective if you can make it work, but I get severaly distracted by the sound of myself speaking so I don't hear a thing. However I do my silent thinking, and I have also taken to speaking to myself when nobody else is around - maybe a sign of beginning senility. I have been speculating about speech with 'holes' where you can repeat (even though profArguelles doesn't find this as effective as simultaneous speech, aka shadowing). The examples I have heard from text book systems were intolerably dull, uninteresting and slow, but maybe it is enough to listen to something with your finger on a shut-up button ... provided that you can accept to miss half of what is said.
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| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5297 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 55 of 67 22 October 2010 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I see the problem and have a suggestion: Shadowing (the technique) can be done without speaking, just in the mind. The real core of shadowing as I understand and use it (this may not have to do much with anything Prof. Arguelles says or proposes) is the splitting of the mental process: You listen to correct native language material (what is good, already a little bit an active process, but still overall more a passive thing), and at the same time you try pretending it is you who produces this language (what is a very "active" activity, as opposed to even active listening, what is the best listening, of course). You listen to the person who speaks, and at the same time you become the speaker. When I do this I am not primarily interested in phonetic correctness or accent building (it can be done with this intention, of course), and so I don't have to speak out loud what I am thinking/listening/reinventing. It is just two processes which are running at the same time inside of the mind. This way you would not have the interference with your own physical voice (what you need is the inner mental voice of course, but this one is the core of shadowing in this sense and cannot be omitted, otherwise you are only listening). I am not sure if my description is hopelessly inadequate, introspection is difficult and necessarily vague, I guess; It may be trivial, and maybe everybody does it this way, or it may be complex, and not everybody can do it, I don't know, but the crucial point here is, that you don't have to speak and can still get most of the benefit of the technique. Edited by lingoleng on 22 October 2010 at 11:41pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5172 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 56 of 67 23 October 2010 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I have had the best results when I also try to visualize myself in the situation. This is really hard for me, but stops my mind wandering and forces me to concentrate on what I am trying to learn. I think shadowing or any sort of repetition alone does not completely work for me. I once listened to a priest talking about how he had repeated the same text every morning for years and could not remember it!
1 person has voted this message useful |
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