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The Mind Portal...The Language Project!!!

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
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autodidactic
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 Message 9 of 84
29 July 2008 at 1:29am | IP Logged 
How much does a 36x38 print cost at a staples? And this does sound like junk pseudo-science. Cite some sources, man. This looks perfect for an infomercial.
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kmart
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 Message 10 of 84
29 July 2008 at 5:25am | IP Logged 
Let me get this straight - you want me to spin a disk full of words and try to read them, each time spinning the disk faster and faster?
Yuck - I'm getting motion sickness just thinking about it!
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Cainntear
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 Message 11 of 84
29 July 2008 at 6:24am | IP Logged 
In fact, the experiments with prismatic glasses suddenly spring to mind -- they proved something about the functioning and abilities of the brain, but didn't develop any useful generalisable skill for the subjects.

Gaining the ability to read a spiral won't help unless snails start getting used as very slow pigeons.
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Pavilion
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 Message 12 of 84
29 July 2008 at 8:16am | IP Logged 
Rollo the Cat wrote:
leosmith wrote:
This has been tried before in the mid 60's. It
didn't work, and it's extremely dangerous, so please be careful.


This could be a useful tool for learning ancient languages. If it spins fast enough, it will create a time-space-
vortex, allowing us to travel back to ancient Greece or Rome, where we can have an immersion experience, hearing
and speaking the language all day. No longer will we have to study Latin as a "dead" language.

I'm ready to give it a try.


What an ingenious idea. I'll join you on the journey, Rollo the Cat! Let's just hope it doesn't make us feel dizzy.
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Jozen-Bo
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 Message 13 of 84
29 July 2008 at 10:19am | IP Logged 
leosmith wrote:
This has been tried before in the mid 60's. It didn't work, and it's extremely dangerous, so please be careful.


"There was an Irwin Allen produced science-fiction series on the air every year from 1964 - 1970. One of those years, 1966, he had three series running concurrently on two networks: Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (ABC, 1964 - 1968), Lost in Space (CBS, 1965 - 1968), and The Time Tunnel (ABC, 1966 - 1967)."

???

You mistook a science-fiction film for a real experiment??? Please read more carefully through the links you provide when trying to make a point, as what has been "tried before" was a nothing more then a fictional experiment in a fictional film with fictional results that don't mean anything. Please, provide a link that is based on FACTS and not fiction.

Thank You,
Jozen-Bo

Edited by Jozen-Bo on 29 July 2008 at 10:21am
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Jozen-Bo
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 Message 14 of 84
29 July 2008 at 11:15am | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
Jozen-Bo wrote:
and this has lead me to begin investigating and performing a language learning experiment to test some theories that have slowly emerged in my mind.

What the Mind Portal is isn't actually the focus of this thread, but rather, what can it do, and more specifically, can it be used for learning languages?


No, I'm sorry, this thread has to focus on what it is, because no-one's going to use it unless they know what it is.

I've had a quick google, and as far as I can see it is something you dreamed up without the backing of scientific theory. You have written a pseudo-scientific "paper" without any references to existing academic thought and you simply asserted lots of claims about it, including:
Jozen-Bo wrote:
Oh yeah...it will develop your PSI abilities with warp speed, faster then you can imagine.


I didn't focus on trying to explain what it is because no one really knows what it is at this time, that is one of the grounds for investigation. You are entitled to think as you choose...however it will be difficult to assert that those words are not true unless and until you try it yourself, otherwise your simply projecting your opinion, and despite whatever scientific fancy facts and words you use to back your points up with, they will not amount to the experience itself. Also, in order for this sort of development to take place, you need to put together a day code, not a word learning code.

Also, I have a right to assert these claims based on my experiences, I am not making them up! I don't NEED to have scientific backing on this, just as people don't NEED to have it for philosophical or religious belief. Science does not rule the world, nor the totality of everyone's minds or hearts here on earth...in fact, more people have faith in something unscientific then not...something that is very real and very important to them.

I do agree that it would be nice to have some explanations using a scientific approach, but is is not the only way. And aside, this experiment will either work or not work, regardless of how many times you or anyone else repeats the "but its not scientific" mantra.

Cainntear wrote:
Quote:
Its basic format is to be used as a calendar to keep track of time and investigate patterns generated in time, though the means to explore it are many, as this map can be placed onto a wheel and spun to produce new patterns and to inform in new ways.

This makes no sense.

Quote:
Since there are no dates, its doesn't have to be used as a calendar and can easily be converted into an information board.

Hang on -- is it a calendar or not?

Quote:
Depending on how successful this experiment is, or if it is; this could reveal a new means of gathering information and change the world.

I have a funny feeling it won't, and I'll explain why in a moment.


Why do you bother to comment on things you have no understanding about as if you do, please stop pretending you are the authority of all knowledge, wising up a little, and humble yourself that you might actually learn something new! So far, these three comments add up to almost nothing, more opinions without reasoning to support them, how are we to make our minds up based on that?

Cainntear wrote:
Jozen-Bo wrote:
Reading this is easy if it isn't spinning, its an exercise if it is, and if this is the case...what is it exercising and what is getting stronger by this?

I can answer that.

On first reading, it appeared to me that the only thing being exercised is being able to read one of these charts, then I made a connection with my piano lessons.

Most piano players I know can't improvise. They can't play by ear. They can't play from memory (ie without music in front of them). And they can't play at full speed on first sight. These things are contradictory -- if you can't play at first sight then you must be playing from memory, because you can't be reading the sheet music. As you play faster, you are committing the tune to memory.

But somehow the mind associates the tune with the piece of paper -- the manuscript becomes an arbitrary cue. Take the manuscript away, and the performance collapses because the cue -- the association -- is required.

If you try to memorise anything from a fixed form, the associated becomes abstract in the same way. I can still picture a sheet of irregular Italian verbs from my high school days, but I'm better with Spanish irregular verbs that were mostly learned individually, bit by bit, without memorisaing charts.


Heresy. Only testing will tell, not guessing nor pondering. This is how your words reach my mind..."this won't work, therefor we should not even bother to examine it". Great...very scientific, since you seem to rely on science to back up how you FEEL (and I select that word with care) about this, it seems odd that your trying to cut down the experiment without letting it speak for itself...in this case eventually literally! Let me return your mantra to you, "that's not very scientific"!


Cainntear wrote:
Quote:
That the mind tires to view this in spin is a very good thing.

Citation please.

Quote:
I already quoted on feeding the information, its about as tedious as it is to do so on ordinary paper, either or, you are writing it out...what's the big difference?

The difference isn't necessary. A lot of us here feel list writing and memorisation is not all that helpful.

To be truly learned, a word has to develop associations with what it describes. Words in a list become associated with the list.


This involves more then list writing, if you were paying closer attention you may of caught that. And despite what you or many others may feel, the academies around the world do not share your opinions, which is why students at schools are made to memorize words and work with lists and tests and so on. This is a solid experiment, there is no room for your feelings about it to undermine what will happen. A test is very simple, it either works or it doesn't work. And you can't say which until the test is over.

Cainntear wrote:
Quote:
Good point about the inner cells! Yes, they are small, one of the reasons why the alphabet tends to go there, each character fits perfectly into these cell's.

Memorising the alphabet doesn't help you say anything or write anything. It is again divorcing form from meaning.


Are you saying there is no need, no value in memorizing the alphabet? Nonsense! Ridiculous! What's the first thing ANY school teaches its children when learning the language...ABCDEFG...if you keep making points like this, I won't even see a reason to challenge them, they will be so self-evidently self destructive they will say everything on their own.

Cainntear wrote:
Quote:
I can't agree or disagree, I suspect that it may be one of the most practical means ever devised, but testing itself is the only way to get the answer.

But people aren't likely to try it out unless you give a solid reason to. It's a lot of time to devote to some other internet weirdo's pet project.

Quote:
If it works, then yes, it will be one of the most interesting experiments ever conducted, if not, then at least we checked out the possibilities.

When The DaVinci Code came out, anyone who criticised the bad history was told "you can't say that unless you've read it". I know there's no such thing as the Priory of Sion -- it's documented fact. Please don't give us the "do it or you won't know" line -- it makes you look like a charlatan.


OK...lets talk about ORGASMS for a second. Either you've had one or you haven't. If you haven't, then there is no way on earth you will know what it is like to have one, no matter how much people describe them to you. A hundred billion years of having people tell you what it's like won't give you one. So...I am going to give you the "do it or you won't know" speech, because it is a valid one to give. I will reverse what you ask of me, please don't ask me to pretend that you know what you are talking about when clearly you don't...don't give me the "we can have the experience of things without having the experience of them" request...it makes it harder for you to make a valid point, OK?

Thanks!

Rollo the Cat wrote:

This could be a useful tool for learning ancient languages. If it spins fast enough, it will create a time-space-
vortex, allowing us to travel back to ancient Greece or Rome, where we can have an immersion experience, hearing
and speaking the language all day. No longer will we have to study Latin as a "dead" language.

I'm ready to give it a try.


GREAT!!! Let me know which language or dead language you intend to encrypt!

Also...without setting up the right patterns of energy, spinning fast enough won't do as you say, though if you could manage to overcome the stress of torque, gravity, centrifugal spin force, and friction burn and make one of these (or anything) spin fast enough, you'll be making a black hole! Fun stuff spinning isn't it?

apparition wrote:

I'm usually like trying out crazy learning methods, but I think I'll pass on this one until its progenitor actually has used the method successfully him/herself. Let us know how it goes.

Makrasiroutioun wrote:

I second apparition's words.


The daring are the ones who lead, the hesitant are the ones to follow. The daring are daring because they are taking the greatest chances, the greatest risks. And...the greater the risk the greater the return if the risk pays off...though I am in no way disrespecting your choices, they are reasonable and safe ones to make. As to letting you know how it goes...will do!


Respectfully,
Jozen-Bo

Edited by Jozen-Bo on 29 July 2008 at 11:28am
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Jozen-Bo
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 Message 15 of 84
29 July 2008 at 11:59am | IP Logged 

autodidactic wrote:


How much does a 36x38 print cost at a staples? And this does sound like junk pseudo-science. Cite some sources, man. This looks perfect for an infomercial.


I pay roughly 4-5 dollars myself to get them printed out, you should not be paying more then that, though it is possible to get the price reduced if you know how to haggle. Since I make maps for a living, if I use discretion, I can sometimes get prints for free by using the machines at work.

I am a little baffled, are you asking me to cite the sources or someone else?

Also, what is an infomercial?

Thanks!

wrote:
kmart

Let me get this straight - you want me to spin a disk full of words and try to read them, each time spinning the disk faster and faster?
Yuck - I'm getting motion sickness just thinking about it!


Can't handle a little discomfort? I advise you never begin a martial arts course then, not a really good one at least, because in such a case you might get punched and kicked, in fact learning to fight really good requires it. You won't find a true master of the arts who hasn't had a bruise or two.

And beware of hard study of just about any academic subject...its been known to give students headaches...ooh god...


Cainntear wrote:


In fact, the experiments with prismatic glasses suddenly spring to mind -- they proved something about the functioning and abilities of the brain, but didn't develop any useful generalisable skill for the subjects.

Gaining the ability to read a spiral won't help unless snails start getting used as very slow pigeons.


Who are they?...It's always they, them, those people, I hear of...who are they?

Also, you spelled generalizable wrong...

I am going to ask you nicely at this point to please stop trolling my thread with comments or feelings that aren't backed up or explained. You can babble all you want about how this or that is going to be, but its not going to deter me from proceeding with the test, and it is the test and not YOU where the answers will be provided. Stop wasting up bandwidth with blah blah.


Pavilion wrote:
What an ingenious idea. I'll join you on the journey, Rollo the Cat! Let's just hope it doesn't make us feel dizzy.


But it will, I know personally. It will make you feel so many things...hey...wait a second...I am beginning to talk about the wrong code. Oops. No, you might have a slight sensation of dizziness, but it won't last long.

What you will need to really watch out for are intergalactic demonic playboy bunny sex ninjas that sometimes come out of the portal and start throwing throwing stars made out of cheese at everything, that can be a real stifler...this is a joke off course (their actually angelic kittens).

I am delighted that you show interest to become a part of this project. Let me know which language maps you begin to work on so that we can coordinate our time to save it (time, that is). And, please don't give any of these maps out to anyone, most especially those here who are trying desperately to shut down this experiment, as they don't deserve them. You put in the work, and you get what you earn, its that easy! Should you be sincere about joining the project, as well as Rollo the Cat, then within one year (more likely much sooner than a year) at this point all of us will have access to the maps generated, this makes 5 sets of language maps!

Edited by Jozen-Bo on 29 July 2008 at 12:10pm
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TheElvenLord
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 Message 16 of 84
29 July 2008 at 1:14pm | IP Logged 
Jozon-bo

Can you please explain to me how this method works, after reading this, I am still not sure of what to do, and how it works.

Thanks
TEL


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