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Spanish pronunciation | ||
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| cjbennettjr Newbie United States Joined 6981 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes | Message 9 of 30 15 October 2005 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hablan Uds. en la forma castellana?
I speak Castilian Spanish, as well as some Judeo-Spanish, have any of you when learning Spanish ever considered speaking with our so-called "lisp?" That is, we pronounce ce, ci, and z, like the English th in the word "thin." We also pronounce final d, (-d) in this way. Quisiera saber que creen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7016 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes  Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 30 15 October 2005 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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The "lisp" you refer to is commonly associated with the residents of Madrid. I think that any Spaniard who is not from there, and as such does not speak with this "lisp", regards that particular accent as very "posh". In fact, I heard a joke on Andalucian television referring to this "lisp" in a negative way. I am under the impression that it is disliked in the south of Spain (although I could be completely wrong).
Personally, I prefer the accents of most South American countries since they appear to "sing" when they talk. I imagine that anyone from the US would be more likely to visit South America and therefore it seems to me that learning one of those accents makes more sense. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sir Nigel Senior Member United States Joined 7105 days ago 1126 posts - 1102 votes 2 sounds | Message 11 of 30 16 October 2005 at 3:40am | IP Logged | ||
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While in France I've heard a lot of people with the Castellano accent. In addition most of the people on TV station (TVE) had that accent too. Does anyone know just how many speak with that accent?
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| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7104 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 12 of 30 18 October 2005 at 2:48am | IP Logged | ||
Patuco, This may well have been referring to the existance of ceceo in Andalucia - particularly prevalent I'm told around Cádiz. Málaga is also sometimes mentioned as well, although I have to say that personally I've not noticed it there. This ceceo (sometimes called "true" ceceo) is not to be confused with the so-called Castilian "lisp". The following are two Spanish nouns often cited as examples: la casa = the house la caza = the hunt/hunting In Latin-American pronunciation these are homophones (i.e. they sound the same) - this is known as seseo. In Castilian pronunciation they are not - they are pronounced differently. In Andalucian pronunication where ceceo is prevalent they are also homophones - the "s" and "z" both being pronounced like a Castilian "z". This pronunciation apparently has negative socio-economic implications i.e. it's considered low-class. Incidentally, ceceo is pronounced in the Castilian manner. Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7016 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 30 18 October 2005 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Andy, very good and informative post. In fact, I was aware of the phenomenon you speak of, but I didn't know it's name, i.e. ceceo.
I too have never heard it in Málaga but it is extremely prevelant in the Cádiz area. You are right regarding the negative connotations of the heavy andalusian accent. I think that the rest of Spain regards Andalucía as a poor and low-class province, whilst the andalusians themselves do not like the perceived upper-class/richer Castilian accent. Just a final note: the Gibraltarian accent approximates to an andalusian accent but the "s" and "z" are both pronounced as "s", like in Latin-America. We also tend to leave out letters (quite frequently!) when speaking and it can be confusing to a "normal" Spanish speaker. In fact, anyone who attempts to speak "proper" Spanish is considered to be "putting on airs" and is usually told to shut up! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| brumblebee Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6776 days ago 206 posts - 212 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese | Message 14 of 30 08 May 2006 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, I have problems with that sometimes too. Especially in "madre", but the rr sound is difficult too. I live in a partially Hispanic family, so most of the time it comes maturally to me though.
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| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6858 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 15 of 30 09 May 2006 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
I spent a good month (not long in the scheme of things) traveling through the north of Spain, and I heard the lisp everywhere that I went. I know that my grandmother and her brothers and sisters spoke with a lisp, and they were from a town high in the Pyrenees. On the other hand, I recently heard a radio interview with an author from Andulicia, and he spoke without the lisp, and also omitted letters, not unlike my boyfriend's family from Nicaragua. Back to the original topic, I´ve had a hard time saying "sorprendente", unless I really slow down, which only draws attention to the fact that I´m having a hard time saying it. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 16 of 30 03 September 2006 at 6:07am | IP Logged | ||
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I was listening to Pronouce it Perfectly in Spanish. It said something that has me wondering. Perhaps some advanced Spanish speakers can say how they do it. The tape/book say to pronounce the "t" with the tongue behind the teeth. There are times when I was putting my tongue between my teeth for "t" as in "techo", "tema", "tela", "tinta". The tongue placement doesn't seem to change the sound much, but perhaps it's a difference that's hard to hear oneself. Where do you put your tongue for the "t"?
Another pronunciation it brought to my attention is "exconsonante". That is "ex" followed by a consonant such as in "excusa", "exclusivo", "experiencia", "extinto", and "extremo". Pronounce it Perfectly says this "ex" before a consonant is often pronounced as "es". I don't have unit 2 of FSI Basic Spanish book handy to compare these points with. Pronounce it Perfectly mentions basic differences in Madrid Spanish versus Latin American Spanish (z, etc), but it doesn't mention the "t" or "exc" in the context of any regional pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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