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Spanish pronunciation

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30 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4 
FuroraCeltica
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 Message 25 of 30
03 April 2007 at 5:31am | IP Logged 
I'm glad someone brought this up, as I'm struggling with r's. Whenever I try and say "Nuestra programma de hoy" it always comes out like "NuestWa programma de hoy". Can anyone give me any advice?
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Hencke
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Spain
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 Message 26 of 30
03 April 2007 at 6:04am | IP Logged 
That combination with str might be especially difficult. I'd suggest practising the r-sound in isolation first, both of them, there is a single and a double r, until you get really good at it, and then come back and try the more advanced combinations. Learn to walk before trying to run sort of thing.

And it should be "nuestro programa de hoy".

EDIT: Another trick might be to practice the -st and -ro parts as if they were different words. Try to imagine "nuest" is one word, followed by another one "ro", with a pause between them. Then just practice saying that more and more quickly, reducing the interval between st and r until they blend together.

Edited by Hencke on 03 April 2007 at 6:07am
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Hencke
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 Message 27 of 30
03 April 2007 at 6:26am | IP Logged 
aaapple wrote:
Andy E., you have "ceceo" and "seseo" reversed. "Seseo" is pronouncing ...

"Ceceo" is the pronunciation of these same letters somewhat like a "th", as in done in most of the rest of Spain.

Sorry, but that is wrong. Your description of "seseo" is correct, but "ceceo" is pronouncing both s and z (including c before e and i) as z. People who use "ceceo" never say s at all, everything is pronounced as z. "ceceo" is only found in some isolated parts in the south of Spain and is generally considered very uneducated and substandard practice.

In the rest of Spain, a distinction is made between the s and z sounds, and this is what you meant, but it is not called "ceceo".

aaapple wrote:
(Castellano is not a "posh" dialect of Madrid, as someone mentioned but is the dominant form of the language in Spain, The "purest" Castellano is said to be spoken in Valladolid).

Very true and a good point. Which castellano is the "purest" can depend a little on who you ask but I too have heard Valladolid mentioned in that context.
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Hencke
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 Message 28 of 30
03 April 2007 at 6:45am | IP Logged 
panama wrote:
Well the rolled R in Spanish is not the same of German or any German dialect like Bayerisch (Bavarian). And the Russian R in the word Russkij is also not the same

I have never studied any Russian, and I am sure you can find slight differences between Russian, Spanish and even Italian r-sounds if we really get down to the nitty-gritty. But I think in this context we were talking in general approximate terms, and there I hear the same trilled r in Russian as in Spanish, Italian, Greek, some variants of German, other Slavic languages etc. etc.

panama wrote:
For example if you listen to somebody from Costa Rica, I am pretty sure that you might not recognize the R in some cases, because it is pronounce like the English "sh" or better like the Russian "dz".

Yes, that can be found in some other parts of LA as well. AFAIK it is only the double rr-sound that is pronounced this way.
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FuroraCeltica
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 Message 29 of 30
03 April 2007 at 7:48am | IP Logged 
Hencke wrote:
That combination with str might be especially difficult. I'd suggest practising the r-sound in isolation first, both of them, there is a single and a double r, until you get really good at it, and then come back and try the more advanced combinations. Learn to walk before trying to run sort of thing.

And it should be "nuestro programa de hoy".

EDIT: Another trick might be to practice the -st and -ro parts as if they were different words. Try to imagine "nuest" is one word, followed by another one "ro", with a pause between them. Then just practice saying that more and more quickly, reducing the interval between st and r until they blend together.


Many thanks, I shall try.

Thanks for the gender correction, as the "a" ending confused me :)
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Kubelek
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chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal
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 Message 30 of 30
03 April 2007 at 2:03pm | IP Logged 
The sounds may seem similar but even a slight difference in a place of articulation can make it impossible to produce certain sound clusters correctly.

Even though 'r' is always trilled in Polish, it is rather short, nothing like 'rr'. When I want it to sound about right my jaw gets rigid and I'm exghaling a lot of air and raising my eyebrows. I guess I need to work on that one.

I was surprised when I first learned the correct places of articulation of some of the English sounds that seemed identical to the Polish eqivalents to me. But soon after that I couldn't imagine myself going back to my old pronunciation. I could clearly hear the difference, and the 'correct' pronunciation required much less tongue movement.

I guess I'll just wait until I'm immersed in a country whose accent I particularly like and then learn it with help of native speakers.

Edited by Kubelek on 03 April 2007 at 2:05pm


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