A continuation of the endless I/O talk (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

A continuation of the endless I/O talk
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

126 messages over 16 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 2 ... 15 16 Next >>

josht
Diglot
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Message 9 of 126

26 November 2008 at 11:07am | IP Logged

For God's sake, drop it. You lot would scare away the most devoted learner.
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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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Spain
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Message 10 of 126

26 November 2008 at 11:16am | IP Logged

Keith wrote:

Slucido, you don't even recognize when the word "you" refers to you personally and when "you" is used in a general sense. Cainntear wrote two sentences.

This sentence is about Slucido:
It says a lot about you that you are willing to dismiss this so readily as a personal attack.

The sentence immediately following that one is not about you personally, but about anyone in general:
Volte is right -- the effectiveness of the techniques you use can only be measured by the quality of language you produce.

It could be rewritten as such:
The effectiveness of the techniques used can only be measured by the quality of the language produced.

:-O I understood the sentences. So what??

Keith wrote:

Unfortunately, there are people who don't care about the quality of output they produce; they just "want to communicate," yet they don't realize that communication is facilitated by accurate language production and correct interpretation of input.

I agree, this people exist.

Keith wrote:

If we look at ALG World, we can see that by withholding output for a proper amount of time the end results are significantly enhanced. Of course we cannot withhold output forever, but it will occur naturally. Furthermore, the withholding of output is NOT the only factor.

It reminds me about a few threads. As usual, experts held contradictory positions.
As a matter of fact, evidence is contradictory.

If you follow this ALG approach and don't give up, you are going to succeed.

If you follow the opposite approach, you talk from the very beginning and don't give up, you are going to succeed.

If you quit, you will fail whatever the method.

As long as you have input and output, intensity and TIME are the most important factors, therefore use the method more reinforcing FOR YOU.

Edited by slucido on 26 November 2008 at 11:19am
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Cainntear
Pentaglot
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Scotland
linguafrankly.blogsp
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Message 11 of 126

26 November 2008 at 12:10pm | IP Logged

We may be lacking in control, but the point is:

Your theory (as you say, you are not proposing a particular method):
All learning methods are equally as good as long as you put in time and effort.

Volte's disproof:
Some people have achieved a demonstrably higher level of English than you in a similar timeframe.
THEREFORE something in your learning history has served you less well than something in theirs.

This, as he said, is disproof of a theory by counterexample.

I can be pretty certain that you aren't deaf from one of your mistakes -- using "this" in place of "these" arises from a phonetic confusion: Castillian and Catalan both lack the /I/ and /z/ sounds as well as long vowels, so most speakers pronounce "this" (ending /Is/) and "these" (ending /i:s/) in the same way (ending /is/). Had you learned from paper, you would not confuse these two. On the other hand, if you are deaf, then it is must be the result of bad teaching -- you couldn't make that mistake independently if you could hear.
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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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Message 13 of 126

26 November 2008 at 1:23pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

We may be lacking in control, but the point is:

Your theory (as you say, you are not proposing a particular method):
All learning methods are equally as good as long as you put in time and effort.

As long as they have input and output and they focus their attention in what's reinforcing for them.

Cainntear wrote:

Volte's disproof:
Some people have achieved a demonstrably higher level of English than you in a similar timeframe.
THEREFORE something in your learning history has served you less well than something in theirs.

This, as he said, is disproof of a theory by counterexample.

Who? What time frame? What are you measuring? How do you know time and intensity they devote to study? What's more...

How do you know they are using different methods or techniques than me?

If someone is using a method and DON'T GIVE UP, he is using the SAME method than me, whatever the method.

Please, read again.

Cainntear wrote:

I can be pretty certain that you aren't deaf from one of your mistakes -- using "this" in place of "these" arises from a phonetic confusion: Castillian and Catalan both lack the /I/ and /z/ sounds as well as long vowels, so most speakers pronounce "this" (ending /Is/) and "these" (ending /i:s/) in the same way (ending /is/). Had you learned from paper, you would not confuse these two. On the other hand, if you are deaf, then it is must be the result of bad teaching -- you couldn't make that mistake independently if you could hear.

You are wrong about this mistake. It's not a phonetic mistake.

In Spanish we say "La gente es", but in English you say "People are". Literal translation: " The people is"

In Spanish we say "Esta gente es", but in English you say "These people are".

Conclusion:

My terrible mistake is a quick literal translation from Spanish to English.

Edited by slucido on 26 November 2008 at 1:27pm
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peppelanguage
Triglot
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ItalyRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Message 14 of 126

26 November 2008 at 3:41pm | IP Logged

ehm...sorry for the intrusion but THIS means ESTE / ESTO (depending on the case) and THESE is the plural...that would be in Spanish "Este chico es guapo" (This guy is handsome) "Estos chicos son guapos" (THESE guys are handsome)...
then, according to me...it doesn't depend on the method you use how far you will go...but Volte is right...quality is the metre...
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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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Message 15 of 126

26 November 2008 at 3:56pm | IP Logged

peppelanguage wrote:

then, according to me...it doesn't depend on the method you use how far you will go...but Volte is right...quality is the metre...

I think a high quality method is a method we don't quit, because it's reinforcing for us.
The problem is there isn't a high quality method. There are different quality methods for different people.

Edited by slucido on 26 November 2008 at 3:57pm
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reineke
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Message 16 of 126

26 November 2008 at 7:09pm | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

peppelanguage wrote:

then, according to me...it doesn't depend on the method you use how far you will go...but Volte is right...quality is the metre...

I think a high quality method is a method we don't quit, because it's reinforcing for us.
The problem is there isn't a high quality method. There are different quality methods for different people.

Method

A means or manner of procedure, especially a regular and systematic way of accomplishing something: a simple method for making a pie crust.

A way of doing something, especially a systematic way; implies an orderly logical arrangement (usually in steps).
Orderly arrangement of parts or steps to accomplish an end: random efforts that lack method.
Synonyms: method, system, routine, manner, mode, fashion, way
These nouns refer to the plans or procedures followed to accomplish a task or attain a goal. Method implies a detailed, logically ordered plan:
teaching method - the principles and methods of instruction

You are rejecting the value of the copyrighted system and the orderly and logical arrangement of teaching material. Pimsleur = language material/input for you plus the marketing and the subjective factor. The value of a particular method as opposed to others is reduced to subjective factors and the marketing ability to fool people into thinking that their "system" has special properties.

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