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Are we all a bunch of wusses?

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
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frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
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2042 posts - 2719 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German

 
 Message 73 of 151
18 December 2008 at 5:40pm | IP Logged 
unzum wrote:
and I was surprised to find that Spanish culture was pretty interesting, and a lot different than I'd imagined.


Even the (Iberian) Spanish culture is quite distinct in Europe, but Spanish American culture is bound to be far more so due to its being an amalgam of Spanish and many Native American cultures. Spanish is a world language - one doesn't have to study it, but one has to be nuts to question others who do.

Quote:
Anyway, point is, this attitude is kinda contrary, wanting to learn a language just because other people aren't, or aren't interested.


Maya's posts had two distinct themes. One was seeking more "exotic" cultures and languages, which rings of the contrarianism you are talking about, the other was seeking greater spirituality and wisdom than is provided by the Western culture of today. Your remarks only address the first point.



Edited by frenkeld on 19 December 2008 at 7:23am
2 persons have voted this message useful



Jenne
Newbie
United States
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Speaks: English*
Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Arabic (Written), Latin, French

 
 Message 74 of 151
18 December 2008 at 7:53pm | IP Logged 
I am working on Egyptian Arabic now that I have my Assimil set (and I've done the first eight Pimsleur lessons.) I also want to learn Swahili because I have a Kenyan friend who is helping me learn a few words at a time.

But I'm working on Italian and German because I love them and have already spent years learning them. I'm working on French because of family history and also as a fall-back for non-European Francophone countries. I'm working on Spanish because I live in the US and should know the major languages of my continent and my country. Mandarin is because I have some Chinese friends, Korean is because I'm in Tae Kwon Do, and Latin and Greek are for the culture aspect. It's not that I'm NOT interested in other languages, it's that these languages have more immediate practical applications for me.

I agree with those who say that none of us language learners are "wusses."
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Julie
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 Message 75 of 151
18 December 2008 at 8:37pm | IP Logged 
I guess I'm not going to say anything new: I learn European languages only because I have interests in learning them. It's quite possible that I start learning more "exotic" languages one day but right now it's just not what I'm interested in. I won't start learning Mandarin, Hindi or Zulu right just to impress someone and prove what a great language learner I am.

I don't care if it sounds kind of Eurocentric to somebody: well, I am European, that's my playground ;), and there are enough fascinating languages here to keep me busy for years. We all have to prioritize, and my wish list is just too long to include non-European languages. If the priorities change I'll certainly think about it. Everyone has his own priorities and my priorities are the best ones - for me.
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SlickAs
Tetraglot
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Canada
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 Message 76 of 151
18 December 2008 at 9:50pm | IP Logged 
frenkeld wrote:
Maya's posts had two distinct themes. One was seeking more "exotic" cultures and languages, which rings of the contrarianism you are talking about, the other was seeking greater spirituality and wisdom than is provided by the Western culture of today. Your remarks only address the first point.

Just for some perspective here on the cultural value of learning something like Hindi:

I have been to India and Pakistan. Accumulated time 6 months on the subcontinent.

I have been inside Indian houses in India as the only white they had ever had in their house, eaten with families, slept in their beds, bent down and touched the feet of the older women as I walk into their houses, gone to weddings, been fed sweets by beautiful sari-clad bridesmaids using thier fingers, eaten pidgeon masalas that are too hot, but ate it anyway so as not to offend the host, hitch-hiked rides on the back of tractors, danced in a circle with the men. I have sat in natural hot-water rock pools with the gun-toting Pushto's in the tribal areas of North Western Pakistan, and travelled over the Karakorum highway all the way to China. I have read the Bhagavad Gita. All in English. There were many things there I did not understand ... many sublteties, customs, I made many a faux-pas. But I would have made them anyway even with Hindi.

English is a language of India. A very important one. I got together the language to be polite and haggle in Punjabi. It helped, my my inability to speak the language did not preclude me from the experience. (I am slightly tempted to get my Punjabi together one day, just as a relic of my travel, but I would never aim for advanced fluency. Basic conversational Punjabi would be a cool party trick).

In India I was shown photos of a white guy from a neighbouring villiage ... full-on Sikh conversion. There he is, pasty white in an orange turban and a beard to his knees. Plays a stringed musical instrument too. They loved showing me the photo, "See you don't have to be Indian to be a Sikh", but you could sense that they felt he was a bit freaky. Like it is all a bit too much, and "what is he doing that for?"

I understand learning Sanskrit to read the Hindu religious texts in their original, as well as the commentaries, etc if you are a Hindu holy-man. I understand doing it just for bragging rights. But you don't need to learn Sanskrit to delve into Indian culture. Realistically, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from reading them in translation. Today. Like right now. I bet there is a copy at your local Barnes and Noble. And the commentaries ... thousands of pages of them, you will be able to get them from a library, or even free on-line. There is nothing stopping you finding your local temple and discussing them with a holy-man in English. And there is nothing stopping you going to India ... just buy a plane ticket and go. It is cheap there. You can make friends with the Indian immigrants around you in society too.

Like I say, English is an Indian language.
3 persons have voted this message useful



jimbo baby!
Senior Member
United States
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 Message 77 of 151
18 December 2008 at 9:55pm | IP Logged 
SlickAs wrote:
frenkeld wrote:
Maya's posts had two distinct themes. One was seeking more "exotic" cultures and languages, which rings of the contrarianism you are talking about, the other was seeking greater spirituality and wisdom than is provided by the Western culture of today. Your remarks only address the first point.

Just for some perspective here on the cultural value of learning something like Hindi:

I have been to India and Pakistan. Accumulated time 6 months on the subcontinent.

I have been inside Indian houses in India as the only white they had ever had in their house, eaten with families, slept in their beds, bent down and touched the feet of the older women as I walk into their houses, gone to weddings, been fed sweets by beautiful sari-clad bridesmaids using thier fingers, eaten pidgeon masalas that are too hot, but ate it anyway so as not to offend the host, hitch-hiked rides on the back of tractors, danced in a circle with the men. I have sat in natural hot-water rock pools with the gun-toting Pushto's in the tribal areas of North Western Pakistan, and travelled over the Karakorum highway all the way to China. I have read the Bhagavad Gita. All in English. There were many things there I did not understand ... many sublteties, customs, I made many a faux-pas. But I would have made them anyway even with Hindi.

English is a language of India. A very important one. I got together the language to be polite and haggle in Punjabi. It helped, my my inability to speak the language did not preclude me from the experience. (I am slightly tempted to get my Punjabi together one day, just as a relic of my travel, but I would never aim for advanced fluency. Basic conversational Punjabi would be a cool party trick).

In India I was shown photos of a white guy from a neighbouring villiage ... full-on Sikh conversion. There he is, pasty white in an orange turban and a beard to his knees. Plays a stringed musical instrument too. They loved showing me the photo, "See you don't have to be Indian to be a Sikh", but you could sense that they felt he was a bit freaky. Like it is all a bit too much, and "what is he doing that for?"

I understand learning Sanskrit to read the Hindu religious texts in their original, as well as the commentaries, etc if you are a Hindu holy-man. I understand doing it just for bragging rights. But you don't need to learn Sanskrit to delve into Indian culture. Realistically, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from reading them in translation. Today. Like right now. I bet there is a copy at your local Barnes and Noble. And the commentaries ... thousands of pages of them, you will be able to get them from a library, or even free on-line. There is nothing stopping you finding your local temple and discussing them with a holy-man in English. And there is nothing stopping you going to India ... just buy a plane ticket and go. It is cheap there. You can make friends with the Indian immigrants around you in society too.

Like I say, English is an Indian language.


Interesting post but sadly it makes Hindi seem obsolete and a waste of time to learn.
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gogglehead
Triglot
Senior Member
Argentina
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 Message 78 of 151
19 December 2008 at 4:27am | IP Logged 

"Spanish is a world language - one doesn't have to study it, but one has to be nuts to question others who do"

Great quote Frenkeld, one of my new favourites, can I use it?

G
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Nocturne
Diglot
Groupie
Italy
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 Message 79 of 151
19 December 2008 at 5:53am | IP Logged 
I think in the end, it's all just a matter of personal interest. I am not studying any European language right now, although I have in the past: I had to study English, for example, and French, which I took in middle school and then promptly dropped when I realized I didn't particularly like the language - nor am I going to pick it up again anytime soon, after a few frankly forgettable experiences with French speakers.
I study Japanese, Chinese and Hebrew because I have a deep interest in their associated cultures, and I find the languages themselves beautiful and intellectually compelling in their own right. A language such as, say, Spanish, which I can read semi-fluently already without having ever studied it, all thanks to my native language, is... well, much less intellectually compelling to me. Of course mileage may vary.
But in the end, who am I to decide people are "wusses" because they prefer European languages? Aren't we all on a similar journey, just with different goals? The whole argument seems honestly kind of childish to me.
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maya_star17
Bilingual Tetraglot
Senior Member
Canada
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Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish
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 Message 80 of 151
19 December 2008 at 6:32am | IP Logged 
SlickAs wrote:
I understand learning Sanskrit to read the Hindu religious texts in their original, as well as the commentaries, etc if you are a Hindu holy-man. I understand doing it just for bragging rights. But you don't need to learn Sanskrit to delve into Indian culture. Realistically, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from reading them in translation.
Isn't something always lost in translation, though? Just a thought.

Quote:
Like I say, English is an Indian language.
Just out of curiosity: what about lower to middle class-ish Indians who aren't very westernized? Do they only know Hindi? Or is English REALLY universal?


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