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Are we all a bunch of wusses? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6951 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 25 of 151 16 December 2008 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
Quoting someone I know who's read your post while we were on chat: you talk about Europe like an American. There is enough variety there, so it's not just all "Western", although there is a degree of commonality, of course. Speaking for myself, having been married to an Indian for 19 years, and having been several times to India with a family and not as a tourist, I am a bit skeptical about the amount of wisdom you will find there. The middle classes there just want prosperity. Kind of like in China these days, I suppose.
A hobbyist may define utility in his own way, so usefulness should be understood broadly. As for why Catalan, the candy is called Barcelona. Edited by frenkeld on 16 December 2008 at 11:26pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5923 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 26 of 151 16 December 2008 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
Edited by maya_star17 on 16 December 2008 at 11:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6951 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 27 of 151 16 December 2008 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
And is this "degree of overlapping" enough to label those who might want to explore several of these overlapping cultures "wusses" because they are not seeking greater exotica while letting their life's blood dribble away in the study of funny-looking characters?
Islamic civilization does offer a different viewpoint to the present-day Western one, because religious and secular views of life are truly distinct. China, however, has a desire to become Western-like in many ways, the main distinction being that it is being done in the name of Chinese nationalism, and nationalism is just that, whatever the language and culture behind it. That said, every major civilization has a historical heritage as well, but then so does the Western one. If you can read Greek and Roman authors in translation, why not the Chinese or Indian ones? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6898 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 28 of 151 17 December 2008 at 12:23am | IP Logged | |||||
It *is* possible to learn about other cultures without learning their language. You can learn a lot by just reading or even watching the news. While learning the language may give you a better insight into the culture, you can also learn a lot by just talking with someone from that culture. I have a friend from West Bengal who speaks perfect English and who has taught me a lot about Bengali culture, religious beliefs and history...all without me having to know a word of Bengali. And fine, you go ahead and learn Hindi or Cantonese or whatever YOU want. No one's stopping you. Why do you have this overriding need to berate others for not choosing 'exotic'languages? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5885 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 29 of 151 17 December 2008 at 1:20am | IP Logged | |||||
It sounds to me more than just American ... it sounds Western Canadian and this is an attitude that is seen as typical of Western Canadians in Quebec. Several thousand kilometres to the border with Mexico, several thousand kilometres to the frontier with Quebec. "Let them speak to us in English". Acres and acres of pure white snow without a single hill and white English in every direction as far as the eye can see or you could drive on a single tank of gasoline. Well, Maya_star17, you know that distance from Calgary to Edmonton? Like 300km is quite close right? If you were in Amsterdam, you would not even have to go that far ... the same distance as to Red Deer and you are in Lille, France, or another direction, in Germany. A ferry will take you the 50 odd miles across to Harwich in England. Similarly from Geneva, Switzerland an hour and a half drive will get you to Lyon, France or Torino, Italy. Like at Red Deer! Imagine if Italy started at Red Deer! With the fabulous food, art, culture, friendships, on your doorstep would you be achewing it as being "too similar" in culture to learn Hindi instead so you can speak to your taxi drivers in their own language even though they speak English? Like I say, your viewpoint is that of a simple-minded Western Canadian who learns French to "impress her teacher", when it is an official language of your country and all the labelling on your food products are in French, and half the television chanels. "But Quebec is miles and miles away" ... I know. And all Quebecois understand how you and your family and freinds and society think. Obviously Americans, especially those close to the Mexican border are going to learn Spanish. If they are close to Quebec, French. Europe is only a hop away from the East Coast ... so why not? For Australians it makes more sense to learn an Asian language since they are our neigbours and trading partners. Many Australians learn Indonesian (our closest neighbour), Chinese and Japanese (our largest trading partners) The Australian Prime Minister speaks fluent Mandarin for example, the Canadian Prime Minster speaks heavily accented French. Neither speak another language. For both of them it makes sense. This has nothing to do with being "wusses", but wanting to be able to speak to your neighbours. Edit: I know people from Alberta who did immersion French school for 5 years, and have lived in Quebec for a further 4 years and do not claim to be "*very* fluent". There is a different standard for bi-lingualism (French-English) in Canada. I assume that Maya_Star17 does not mean that you are 17 years old. If so, your naievete is forgiven. But you understand that with your agressive post we are talking to you as if you are 30. Edited by SlickAs on 17 December 2008 at 6:01am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6019 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 30 of 151 17 December 2008 at 6:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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When you talk about learning more about culture, it's good to think in terms of depth and breadth.
I'm Scottish by birth, predominantly Irish by blood and partly English. I have a surname that may originate in Normandy, or may just be a corruption of an Irish name to look like the Norman name. The Normans were Vikings that had invaded France, and the Vikings also invaded parts of Ireland, Scotland and England. Those that invaded England were from Denmark, those that invaded the other countries mentioned were predominantly Norwegian. A number of other territories fell within the Vikings' remit: the Faroes, Iceland and Greenland. Of those, the Faroes and Iceland share a geological link with Scotland, being part of the "North Atlantic Rim", an ancient tectonic plate that has since split up. The North Atlantic Rim also includes the Appelachian Mountains and a part of Nova Scotia. Many Scots -- both and Anglo-Saxon and Gaelic speakers -- ended up in Canada, alongside Crees, Micmacs and various other indigenous groups and French speakers. There even used to be a Cree/Gaelic croele: "Bungee". That one's long gone, but many of the Scottish settlers would have spoken French or even Michif (French/Cree creole). Coming from a Catholic family background, Latin is obviously relevant to me, particularly given the influence it has had on English. But then Norman and Parisian French have had a massive effect on English too. And English is a Germanic language, originating round about Denmark and the Netherlands. So, exploring even my own culture through language is an endless task, as we're looking at: Jerriais (the last remaining dialect of Norman French, spoken in the Channel Islands) Irish Scottish Gaelic English Scots (the lowland Anglo-Saxon tongue) Danish Norwegian Faroese Icelandic Latin Cree Micmac Michif Metropolitan Quebecois French Frisian Dutch And many more besides. The deeper you get into something like this, the deeper you realise it goes, and you find that the languages round about you, those that have interacted with your ancestors and their languages, tell you so much about the similarities and differences between you. Some exotic, far-off language is more likely to tell you about someone else, not about yourself. --- Besides, it's easier to learn a language when you've got people to speak to, and there's more Europeans in Europe than Africans or Asians, despite what some sections of the press say about "floods of immigrants".... ;-) 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5885 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 31 of 151 17 December 2008 at 6:24am | IP Logged | |||||
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If you learn Swedish, you will find that many Swedish words match with the Scottish slang, (or at least I felt). For a simple example Swedish for child is "barn", and when that child cries, the verb to cry is "gråta". Hardly similar to English. But 3/4 of my family is Scottish (5 generations down the track, so I am hardly anything but Australian), and I found Swedish straight forward, because if I didn't have it in English, I had it in the slang my grandfather used (himself being 3 generations down the line).
So mate, follow that line ... go a Scandinavian language ... you'll find you are lingusitcly descended from Vikings and be surprised by it ... and love it. Edited by SlickAs on 17 December 2008 at 7:17am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5923 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 32 of 151 17 December 2008 at 8:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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