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TAC09 French-Goal Listening fluency (LR) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Dark_Sunshine Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5769 days ago 340 posts - 357 votes  Speaks: English*, French | Message 33 of 98 31 March 2009 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Adrean- I was just wondering, do you make parallel and/or interlinear texts or do you just take 2 separate books for the L-R'ing? I've just started to flirt with this method, also for French, but with 2 books. I'm just don't think I'm doing it right because the translations never seem accurate enough so I end up double checking meanings in the dictionary- and that gets tiring pretty quickly.
Oh, by the way, 'adoucir' is to soften, and un 'cauchemar' is a nightmare. (Does it seriously contaminate the method if you find them out like this??) Anyway, good luck- I'll be following your journal with interest so I can steal some of your ideas :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 34 of 98 03 April 2009 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | ||
Hello all
I'm definetely not a purist of the original L-R method that was proposed originally. I follow some of the steps faithfully which I believe are important. I think it's true that the longer the text the better. I also think that if you are going to do the L-R method seriously that you should first read the book in your native language. The reasons why have been explained elsewhere. However I am tending to pick up books now which I haven't read before and jumping straight into L-Ring (pure laziness on my part). I avoid several of the steps, one of them being creating and using a parallel text. I haven't even bothered to try and L-R with a parallel text so maybe I'm not the best person to ask. In my opinion it is possible to leave out this step. Though this is disputable. I also leave out the shadowing step because I don't know if I'm doing it correctly and my focus is not pronunciation at the moment. Also I only do very little of the reading in target language and listening in target language, but when I do this I have a fairly good comprehension One more thing I would like to say that comes off the back of the last book I have L-Red, is to have a book with at least a basic plot with basic events which follow each other in time. I've just read Swann's Way by Marcel Proust which is very philosophical but does not have much in terms of plot or action. Events or actions give you some kind of land marks which you can bridge the gap with the next event and so you have a clear idea of where you are in the story. Sometimes I just listen to audiobooks I've read previously to test myself and these events or landmarks are important I think in terms of comprehension. For example if you were to listen to red riding hood you would have greater comprehension then listening to a scientific journal because there are clear landmarks that guide your comprehension. I'm making no sense.... Ok so what I've done these past few days. I finally finished L-RIng Swann's Way by Marcel Proust. I've watched several films. The Lady and the Duke by Eric Rohmer. Un long dimanche de fiançailles by Jean-Pierre Jeunet and finally Pierrot le fou by Godard. I will just say that the pick of the bunch is 100% for me Pierrot le fou by Godard. Please watch it if you get the chance. A complete breath of fresh air. My plans for the coming days is to watch some more films and to choose and begin a new book to L-R. I've also borrowed my first graphic novel in french, Les 12 Travaux d'ASTERIX. Edited by Adrean on 17 April 2009 at 8:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 35 of 98 05 April 2009 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi all,
Just a reasonsably short post to jot down my goals for the remainder of the month of April. I find I'm jumping between my resources just a little too much. I must remember that L-R is my prinicipal form of study! Read my first graphic novel in French - Les 12 Travaux d'ASTERIX Read 15-20 short stories(usually only 6-8 pages by guy de maupassant Add 100 or so unfamiliar words to Mneysomne from my reading. I havent used this program for over 6 months. Listen-Read Bel Ami by Maupassant - 11.5 hours Listen-Read Un Armour de Swann by Proust - 8.5 8-10 French Movies Finish Season 15 of Simpsons (about 8 episodes to go) Very Very ambitious goals for the rest of the month. Just thought I would say that I saw an audiobook that runs in at 52 hours the count of monte cristo. Tackling this book at some point in the future would be a true test of the validity of the Listening-Reading method. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 36 of 98 16 April 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi all,
An update because because well... it's a little overdue. I read my first graphic novel in French. I breezed through it in no time at all, BUT I could not pick up the finer points of comedy and language usage. I really haven't read enough in French to be any good yet. I knocked off Bel-Ami in a couple of days. Very simple language and a very faithful translation into English made listen-reading this book very easy. It was a pleasure to read. I also had a great bit of luck, whilst reading the book I found a copy of a theatre production based on the novel made a few years ago. I read the book and then watched the play on DVD. There was no subs and loads of dialogue so it was great practice. It was also a first for me to see French theatre, even though it was on DVD. Also watched a few films since last I posted. Anyone interested in French Cinema out there? I watched a film by one of the heavy weights of French cinema, Francois Truffaut. He did The 400 blows and Jules and Jim. I watched one of his lesser known films La Chambre Verte. Truffaut was starring in the leading role and he gave a very convincing performance as a man who refuses to forget the memory of the dead. It's really a very nice film. Next was Army of shadows or L'amree des ombres I think in French by Melville. No subs with this one so I tried as a best as I could to follow. Some very nice shots of Lyon in the background. Very suspensful in parts. A few memorable scenes for example using French resistance fighters as target pratice for the Germans. Last by not least was Jeux interdits (forbidden games) by Michel Carne I think. This was a nice surprise for me as I was not familiar with the director and picked the film up on a whim. Really nice story of a very young girl who's parents are killed whilst fleeing Paris. She finds herself living with peasants and befriends a boy. The two children in the lead role are perfect. For the time being i've borrowed another Truffaut film and the pianist upon someone's recommendation. Edited by Adrean on 19 April 2009 at 12:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 37 of 98 30 April 2009 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's the end of the month and I have to look at whether or not I have reached the goals I have set myself for the month. The short answer is no and the long answer is no I haven't. Why? Went on a weeks holiday and no study was done. Personal life a little more active then usual. Also the idea of L-Ring Proust again was tormenting me so I didn't. I'm gonna read Zola instead. Why do I even bother giving excuses?
I have the strongest motivation to study for the next few weeks because mid-month I'm off to the south of France. I'm very excited. I'm going with two friends who speak no French so I will act as translator...soo nice. SO I will lay out my study goals until the 18th of this month for my trip to France. Finally a concrete goal I can strive for. Well I should point out what I have actually done. I've concentrated mainly on films (again). I have seen The Pianist by Michael Haneke(sp) and must say that this film was really great. I liked it more then Cache which he also directed. Both films are worth checking out. I saw La Bete Humaine by Renoir. Have L-Red the book by Zola previously. Very faithful and good rendition of the book. Gabin was breathtaking in the leading role as a man predestined to violence because of the alcohol abuse and violence of his forefathers. I will track down more films from him if I can find them. Now i've seen two more films by Truffaut and was disspointed by each for a different reason. The first was the La Mariee etait en noir. I expected an austere and thought provoking film that Truffaut usually makes which the DVD cover imples. What I got was a revenge film. The plot is almost identical with Kill Bill. I went onto read that Truffaut did not like the film in a few years. The second was Fahrenheit 451 and I was dissapointed with this for a completely different reason. It's in English. Something similar has happened to me before several times. You go and watch two hours of a film in the interest of study and there is little or no dialogue. It happened with Jaques tati's film Mr Hulot's Holiday, which is basically a silent film. Also Window to Paris which had said on the back cover language French, but more like 80% Russian. Also a film or two of Bresson's can be a little low on dialogue at times. Nevertheless Fahrenheit 451 was a very good film and I watched along with French subtitles. Now the goals for the next few weeks before my trip to France. L-R Germinal by Zola - 17.5 hours 3-5 films <........Not exactly the best form of study, but just to mix it up a bit And a review of an advanced course of either Michel Thomas or Learn in You Car or Pimsleur to get me back into the habit of formulating sentences and speaking again. And whatever else may pop up. If I can do all of the above I think I should be prepared for anything in France I hope, Edited by Adrean on 30 April 2009 at 10:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5972 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 38 of 98 01 May 2009 at 5:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Glad to read you're doing well. I'm work on French as well. I've had good luck watching dubbed TV episodes. If you're interested, French Simpsons is available http://homersweethomer.blogspot.com/2008/10/saison-5-episode -6.html
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| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 39 of 98 12 May 2009 at 1:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi all,
My log escaped down to the third page so it time to update. Extralean you mentioned the Simpsons. I have several seasons already of Simpsons and South Park. They are an invaluable resource for me. I'm going in a weeks time to France and I plan to buy as many low cost movies and TV shows as I'm able to. I will post back here with the goodies I have picked up. Unfortunately I'm limited to carry on luggage... or maybe fortunately. As for my studies I've been concentrating my time between films and audio courses. I've returned back to Learn in Your Car French. I cannot say whether this is really a good course or not. I think it's a terrible course if you have no grounding in grammar or basics. Michel Thomas is preferable if your a beginner. I'm using it as a kind of refresher course for my trip as it throws more sentences and vocabulary out there for me to respond to. For those of you who have not tried Learn in Your Car France it's divided into short lessons where they work on a grammar point or vocab point(like days of the week). They don't explain how the grammar functions work but only say a short sentence in English which you translate into French aloud or in your head and then the sentence is read twice by a native speaker. It's good in a way that if you have learned the grammar previously it gives you a chance to practice. I find the pace very difficult and mostly cannot translate the English sentence in the time they allocate. I have begun this time from lesson 70. There are about 120 short lessons. Overall it's a very cheap course in comparison to the other audio courses and it's quite a long one. It doesn't have that strong repitition factor that pilmsleur has and I believe the language taught is more natural in Learn in Your Car. I also think it's much more difficult then pilmsleur. Try doing from lesson 80 onwards after you have just finished pilmsleur and you will know what I mean. Mostly I am watching films. I stumbled across a documentary on French T.V today about the French new wave which was interesting. I'm posting directly after seeing Leon Morin, Pretre. This was the third Melville film I have seen and I must say it's my pick of all three, I don't think other people think so as it only has three comments on IMDB. It has two of my favourtie French actors, Jean Paul Belmondo and Emmanuelle Riva. If you know Jean-Paul Belmondo (which you should) it is probably hard to imagine him act as a priest but he is shockingly convincing. Unfortunately the rest of the films I've seen don't quite match up. I watched the recent French Les Miserables again for my studies. It's a 6 hour mini series broken up into four parts. I don't have subs with this one so it's good practice. John Malkovitch is in this one. Next was another Jeunet film. The city of lost children. This is his fourth film I've seen in recent times and it was quite dissapointing for me. It's a bit of a sci-fi. I like Jeunet's humor at times but mostly it doesn't appeal to me. I get the impression that when people think of foreign film (films that come outside U.S.A) they think of this kind of film. You just have to look a little back in time and you'll have a much more rewarding experience. If you want to see a good sci-fi foreign film see, Alphaville, Farenheit 451, Solaris and there are many more. Last and least was John Cocteau's La Testament D'Orphee. Acutally it wasn't too bad. I won't go into it. Edited by Adrean on 12 May 2009 at 1:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6155 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 40 of 98 12 May 2009 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | ||
I strongly agree with your choices. If your interested in a cheap, but interesting, French sci-fi flick, check out Eden Log. I picked it up over the weekend in HMV, and watched it last night. It's not on par with the previously mentioned films, but it has a curiosity value. FR: Eden Log Un homme reprend conscience au fin fond d'une grotte. Tolbiac n'a pas la moindre idée des raisons qui l'ont amené jusque-là, pas plus qu'il ne sait ce qui est arrivé à l'homme dont il découvre le cadavre à côté de lui. Seule solution pour échapper à la créature qui le poursuit : remonter jusqu'à la surface à travers un réseau aux allures de cimetière et abandonné par une mystérieuse organisation, Eden Log. Edited by DaraghM on 12 May 2009 at 12:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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