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TAC09 French-Goal Listening fluency (LR) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes  Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 41 of 98 15 May 2009 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hi Darag, thanks for the suggestion for the film. I've read a little about it and it seems like an interesting film. Thankyou for including a bit of French on this log as well. I'm much too afraid to write anything other then short sentences, let alone a synopsis of a film. Well my goal is to be able to listen to a reasonable level of French fluently by the end of this year. I might include some written French when I'm ready to show how really incompetent I am. By the way did you write the above yourself or copied and pasted?
The day is coming nearer for the short visit to France. It's the first visit since I began to learn more then 2 and a half years ago. These next couple of days should be filled with study study study I hope. I really hope that I can use the language as much as possible and not just mingle with English speakers. What I have done over the past few days? I'm steadily working my way through Learn In Your Car French(LIYCF). I'm using the pause button a lot! I must wait until I have formulated the correct answer before I go ahead and hit play. It might mean that a short lesson of 7 minutes may take 15-20, but I think it's the right way. I must say that in the later lessons LIYCF gets very very hard. Has anyone tried it out there? What are your thoughts? I'm Listen-Reading again. I will try and knock off this book before I leave on Monday. Lots of lots of vocab which I have never encountered and probably will never use due to the subject matter of the book, but I'm enjoying it, which is a hard thing to say about studying. Actually the hardest thing is getting the motivation to pick up the book and begin. Once I begin I won't stop for an hour or two. The book is Germinal by Emile Zola. I've watched two more films. Both by Louis Malle. Previously I have never seen his films. One was called Black Moon and the other Zazie in the Metro. The curse has struck me again. Black Moon is actually in English but I watched along with French subs. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 42 of 98 24 May 2009 at 1:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ok, have returned from my sejour into France and will write my thoughts while they are still fresh.
Arrived to Nice on Monday afternoon. Spent the first day there. The weather was very good for the duration of our trip. We had remarkable luck because not only was the Cannes festival on but also beginning this weekend was the Monaco grand prix. On Tuesday we went to Cannes and stood for ages to catch a glimpse of Penelope Cruz from miles away. Wednesday we went to Monaco. Thursday spent a relaxing day in Nice. The old town's really very nice. Friday two friends had to leave so my brother and I hired bikes. What began as a short ride meant a return trip to Monaco. It was very hilly. But we had a chance to see some practice F1 sessions. Today (all alone) I walked around Nice all day trying to use French where I could. Very nice trip all in all. Lots of walking. Lots of eating. Lots of sunshine. How did I fare in terms of the language? Well where I could I tried to speak French such as ordering food or tickets. It is true what they say though, if you don't appear fluent they will quickly change to English even though you spoke French first. This was a bit frustrating at times. A main point of frustration was searching for a word or trying to put something a certain way and coming up blank. However had some very satisfying moments whilst speaking, meaning that I understood and was understood. Did not at any point get into a lengthy conversation with a French speaker. The most most satisfying thing was my listening comprehension. Maybe I could not speak to them very well but I understood or got the gist of what they said. Fresh memory is French airport this afternoon where the woman asked if I had any liquids in my bag, was it my bag etc etc. Also when we hired bikes I generally spoke English and he spoke in French mostly. Also translating passer-by conversations for my friends. Overheard some good ones! I completely collasped into English when two French girls asked for directions today. They caught me off my guard. Also saw a film whilst away. It was called Je l'aimais. No subs and all in French. I followed along really nicely. The beginning was a bit sketchy, but as the story progressed it became easier and easier to follow. I watched with my brother who is currently learning French in Paris and it was clear when talking afterwards that I understood more than him. I put this down principally to the L-R method and exposure, exposure, exposure. The film was good enough. Very solid performance by Daniel Auteuil. I like him a lot but he isn't always perfect. He was very good in this role. I noticed no comments on IMDB which means it probably hasn't been released outside France yet. Now for the goodies.. what I bought. Actually not very much. I managed to get 3 DVD's of He-Man for a euro each. I don't think He-Man will be big on dialogue however. I got season 5 of Simpsons. Wanted to get Futurama and South Park but everything was so expensive. Bought a film for €3 called papillon which I have seen previously and another film. Brang home some magazines filled with interviews for pratice later and a newspaper. Thats it! Limited space and limited money. I don't like hoarding stuff anyway and will probably give these things away later. Well trips over and will take a breather for a couple of days. Thanks for reading 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ExtraLean Triglot Senior Member France languagelearners.myf Joined 5998 days ago 897 posts - 880 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 43 of 98 24 May 2009 at 6:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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It's good to see that you've had a good experience in France, I've not yet visited too much of the south but I would like to do so this summer.
Keep up the good work. Thom. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 44 of 98 25 May 2009 at 12:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well I was supposed to have a day or two off study but with no work and no plans there was little else to do today. Learning French is a full time hobby for me now I guess.
So with my time today I looked a little closer at the levels of study B1, B2, A1, A2 etc. and what they mean. I found a gem of link posted in a seperate post http://www.delfdalf.ch/index.php?id=95 . They have several example tests here. I had a quick go of the B1 test for listening comprehension and I think I did well. There is a written section and an oral section which I could not do obviously. I believe that I would fall under the B1 banner at the moment. I know that my writing and speaking will not be up to a good level. I believe that I could pass an official test for B1 with a little bit of preperation. I was looking at the levels because I've decided I will go ahead with a 2 month course with the alliance francaise even though it is very expensive. There are two classes per week. There is a short placement test before they put you in a class. I believe firmly in self-study, but I believe that the class will help me refresh grammar and my written skills as well as providing grounds to speak with others on my level. I will be completely crushed if they put me in anything else then a mid level intermediate class. Today I rewatched Le Papillon(the butterfly)after a gap of a couple of years. No subs as was a French DVD. This is such a gem of a film and I recommend it to you all regardless of age, gender and taste. It's a very simple concept but it is done so well. This I can say with absoulute certainty is a much better film then Les Choristes which is a more widely known film. Les Choristes is completely contrived and condescending to the audience. It ticks all the boxes and nothing is left to the imagination. Why I bring up Les Choristes is that the two films came out within a year of each other and both deal with the mentoring relationship of an adult with children. I'm gritting my teeth thinking one film got so much undeserved attention and the other well... Watched season 1 episode 1 of a French Sitcom called 'H', I hope there's not a season 2. The sitcom is set in a hospital with three mischievous young men. Did not understand much of the language as was quite advanced for me..I can tell it's not very good though. Will painfully sit through the rest of the season for study purposes. Watched 2 episodes of He-Man and an episode of the Simpsons. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 45 of 98 25 May 2009 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hi all,
Very very good news to report back to you all with. At what level I am at has always been unclear to me. Am I a high-beginner low-intermediate or just plain all over the place. I took a look at what B1, B2, C1 and what the levels meant for the first time yesterday. I was sure that I was at a B1 level when I looked at the test yesterday. I was right. It was with a little anxiety that I went to the alliance francaise today to complete a placement test. Worse case scernario was they would place me in a high-beginner class. Best case would be high intermediate. I had a short conversation with the teacher firstly. I think I made a few errors because I was a little nervous. Broke out into English occasionly. Overall it felt very natural to speak and listen. My recent trip to Nice helped I think. She must have guessed I was at a reasonable level and gave me some questions to answer on paper. One was on subjunctives, the other on que, qui, ce qui, ou , dont etc... and lastly an open ended question where I had to write about 100 words or so. One thing is clear; I cannot spell, espicially with the conjugations of verbs. I have never had to write before. This is probably my weakest point. Well I did well enough because I am in the highest intermediate class of 4 classes, one level under the advanced class. The lady made it clear to me that this would be a challenging class for me and I intend to work as hard as possible to be successful. Officially I'm at the upper cusp of the B1 level and next term I will be at the lower end of B2. So success! --------------------------------------- Well by now this thread should really be the movie and L-R road to fluency. I kept a list of all the films I have watched since the beginning of the TAC 09 challenge that I would like to share with you. Later on in the year as the list grows longer I would like to make the list more concise, perhaps give each film a rating and list the director etc...I know there are a few of you out there who use movies a mode of study. Each of the films I would recommend to you all with the exception perhaps Love Me If You Dare. Movies/TV shows Cache Le Rayon Vert Bob Le Flambeur La Vie En Rose Last Year at Marienbad Belle De Jour Love Me If You Dare Delicatessen Triple Agent Therese Raquin La Captive Un long dimanche de fiançailles Pierrot Le Fou Lady and the Duke La Chambre Verte Bel-Ami L'armee des Ombres Jeux Interdits La Mariee etait en Noir La Pianiste Fareiheit 451 La Bete Humaine La Testament D'Orphee Les Miserables City of Lost Children Leon Morin, Pretre Zazie Dans Le Metro Black Moon Je L'aimais Le Papillon Au Revoir Edited by Adrean on 25 May 2009 at 8:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5972 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 46 of 98 28 May 2009 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Glad to hear it's going well. I've got a question though. LR seems to have worked really well for improving your passive ability. It doesn't sound like it's improved your active ability as much. Because of this inactive/active imbalance, you're looking for ways to improve your active ability. So couldn't you try techniques like shadowing and scriptorium? The original LR poster recommended not speaking until one had shadowed a portion of a very familiar book--I think.
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| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 47 of 98 01 June 2009 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hello,
Just completed a long concise post last night and hit the wrong button so it went missing. Tears tears tears. I'll be a little more careful this time.
Thanks for the question glidefloss. This is the little I understand from what i've read about shadowing. First step is to have a text you are familiar with and try to speak as you hear. You can choose to have or not have the written text in front of you. Actually that's all I know about the method. I have seen the video of the 'professor' doing the method. It's fascinating! It's a little diffcult for me to see how shadowing will help my overall fluency. Do you aquire new vocabulary or improve grammar any more then using the L-R method? I can see how it can bring my speaking up to speed and improve pronunciation but I cannot see the benefit to overall fluency. Can you fill me in? Actually that's pretty lazy and I should look for myself elsewhere on the forum What have I been doing this past week? A little L-Ring from Emile Zola's Germinal. Not nearly enough. Watching loads of Simpsons in French with French subs. The subs do not match the dialogue. There's many ways to say the same thing and it's interesting to see how the two differ between subs and dialogue. I'm very very familiar with these epidodes and it helps a lot. Have seen three films. The first is often claimed to be the greatest French film ever made. Can you guess what it is? No? It's Les Enfants Du Paradis. I recommend it to you all. It's a very creative film with a lot of heart and soul. Lots and lots of work and attention has obviously gone into it. Lots of language pratice as it's 3 hours long. Did I say it was from 1946? I also saw Le Voleur by Malle and Les Triplettes de Belleville. The curse has struck (frapped) me once again. Les Triplettes de Belleville is basically a silent film so in the interest of language study it's not so great but it's a very nice animated film never-the-less. And once again working my way through the Michel Thomas 5 cd language builder course. The woman who does the course is beginning to get on my nerves. She's got nothing on our dead friend Michel. And the sentences are overly long that they expect you to say.. Edited by Adrean on 08 June 2009 at 10:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 48 of 98 08 June 2009 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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"Dissapointment came to me and booted me and bruised and hurt me"
Well a little shocked and dejected. Was all geared up for my first lesson at the alliance francaise today and class was cancelled because of lack of numbers. There were only two of us enrolled in the class. I made the choice to drop not one but two classes down as class below was cancelled as well. Not exactly the most challenging enviroment for language growth - but there is no harm in revising I guess. Still I did not even receive a call from the Aliiance and after paying all those bucks. Well first lesson in two days and hopefully it won't be all doom and gloom. Will keep you informed. Continuing on the subject of doom and gloom the film I watched last night wasn't exactly uplifiting. The film is call La Haine and was recommended by Glidefloss. It was certainly not a bad film. It was just a little bit more violent then what i'm used to. It's a day in the life of 3 youths in the Paris projects following a day of riots. Also saw Quai des Brumes the other day which starred Jean Gabin and was directed by Michel Carne. I enjoyed this film and the rest of the films I've seen by Carne so far. What else? Slowly L-Ring my way through Germinal. I hope to finish tomorrow and move onto something new. It's a very engrossing book as everything i've read by Zola has been. Feel like reading something of an adventure book next and might read something by Dumas. Perhaps the The count of Monte Cristo(52 hour long audiobook). Think I should be fluent after that?? We'll see. On a positive note I returned to a few of the French in Action video's to test how far my listening comprehension has come thus far. Last time I watched the video's would be about 8 months or so ago. I watched some of the later and more advanced episodes and can say without a word of doubt that I understood 95% of the short story sequences at the beginning of the episodes. 8 months ago I may have caught a word here or there but now I can sit comfortably and listen and enjoy the story. What has happened? Something has clicked in my brain I think over the past 8 months. Last post I answered a little vaguely to Glidefloss's question on shadowing and I will quote Iversen because he can say things much more clearly and precisely then I. And what he has to say about L-Ring is soo spot on. On Shadowing
On L-R
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