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Revolutionary approach to learning langua | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 105 of 129 14 February 2009 at 6:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't buy this. I think they are lying. Urban legends. If you want to be good at speaking, you need to speak If you want to be good at writing, you need to write. Maybe listening and reading are more important, but speaking and writing are essential as well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| TerryW Senior Member United States Joined 6360 days ago 370 posts - 783 votes Speaks: English* | Message 106 of 129 14 February 2009 at 8:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree. I could watch Billy Joel and Eddie VanHalen play all day for months, but I wouldn't be able to play even "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" on piano or guitar until I practiced it myself. OK, just maybe I could play "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" . . . nope, just tried. ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Maestro Groupie Chile Joined 5874 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes | Message 107 of 129 14 February 2009 at 9:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Quite true, but I find that the more input you have 'absorbed' the easier it is to speak when you start speaking.
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| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 108 of 129 14 February 2009 at 10:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sure, nobody denies that. If you achieve native listening comprehension, you will have fifty percent gained, but you won't solve all the speaking problem by listening. If you want to be good speaking, sooner or later you will need to speak because speaking experience is necessary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6450 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 109 of 129 14 February 2009 at 11:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||
A striking example proving Krashen's claim that acquisition is possible even without production practice, is described in Fourcin (1975, cited in Krashen, 1985a). Richard Boydell was a fully intelligent though a linguistically impaired child, who could understand the language spoken around him while he couldn't speak normally nor could he use a sign language. At the age of thirty, he was given a foot-controlled type writer and only then he could communicate with the outside world. He wrote: "I acquired an understanding of language by listening to those around me. Later, thanks to my mother's tireless, patient work I began learning to read and so became familiar with written as well as spoken language. As my interest developed, particularly in the field of science, I read books and listened to educational programs on radio and, later, television which were at a level that was normal, or sometimes rather above, for my age. Also when people visited us ... I enjoyed listening to the conversation even though I could only play a passive role and could not take an active part in any discussion ... As well as reading books and listening to radio and television .... I read the newspaper every day to keep in touch with current events". ( Fourcin,1975, cited in Krashen,1985, pp.11-12). As Fourcin puts it, Boydell's writing was "elegantly phrased" although he had never written anything before. Krashen(1985a) attributes Boydell's success in expressing himself with such a vigorous style, to his previous listening and reading experience. The mere fact that he can produce such complicated sentences without any history of practice of productive skills; writing and speaking, runs counter to the predictions of output hypothesis, which bases the development of language proficiency on output as well as input. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 110 of 129 14 February 2009 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Ok Reineke, if you believe this commentary, don't waste your time speaking or writing in your target languages. Edited by slucido on 14 February 2009 at 1:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| parasitius Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6001 days ago 220 posts - 323 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Cantonese, Polish, Spanish, French | Message 111 of 129 14 February 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You couldn't have picked a more perfect example. When I was 13 I played guitar, and after learning some initial things (enough bits of songs to fill about an hour), I just kept repeating those bits over and over and got too lazy to "watch" and study anything new. Consequently I played two more years without an iota of progress. The same thing happens to anyone speaking a language on a daily basis without ACTIVE STUDY. Fossilization at one point. No progress is made through speaking, cause you can only say what you already know how to say. You do not get good by repeating the same crap a quadrabillion times. You do not get GOOD at speaking BY speaking. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6450 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 112 of 129 14 February 2009 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's what I've been doing. I am not advocating any method or approach. Passive exposure suits me wonderfully. Comprehensible output? Stephen Krashen Abstract The comprehensible output (CO) hypothesis states that we acquire language when we attempt to transmit a message but fail and have to try again. Eventually, we arrive at the correct form of our utterance, our conversational partner finally understands, and we acquire the new form we have produced. The originator of the CO hypothesis, Merrill Swain (1985), does not claim that CO is responsible for all or even most of our language competence. Rather, the claim is that “sometimes, under some conditions, output facilitates second language learning in ways that are different from, or enhance, those of input” (Swain and Lapkin, 1995). A look at the data, however, shows that even this weak claim is hard to support. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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