Revolutionary approach to learning langua (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Revolutionary approach to learning langua
Tags: Language Acquisition Theory \| Brain \| Scientific Research \| Listening
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

129 messages over 17 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 9 ... 16 17 Next >>

slucido
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Message 65 of 129

03 February 2009 at 10:51am | IP Logged

reineke wrote:

Khatzumoto has recently blogged about the "incomprehensible input", he is continuing with his Krashen mantra and yet he cannot be bothered to check what Krashen has to say about incomprehensible input.

Who cares what Krashen says or not?

Khatzumoto learns from massive interaction with the language as everybody.

reineke wrote:

I have personally learned one language and partially learned another from "incomprehensible input" without the aid of grammar books or dictionaries. It IS possible.

:-)
Very interesting. Can you talk more about this point?

reineke wrote:

I am not sure I would recommend listening to "incomprehensible input" as the main approach to anyone trying to break into new and especially unrelated languages. I would not recommend it to anyone with practical goals. The most successful language learners, especially those who learn a lot of languages "fast" use grammar books, dictionaries and works of literature. Cervantes is great for this purpose, contrary to what you claimed before.

I only recommend massive interaction (input+output) with the language. Isolated input (comprehensible or not) doesn't work.

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slucido
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Message 66 of 129

03 February 2009 at 11:07am | IP Logged

Volte wrote:

1) If you would like to argue that having a bilingual text does not make the input more comprehensible, feel free to argue it with a wall.

2) I accidentally left that out of the post. That paragraph should end with "... and test both groups (with conversational ability, multiple choice comprehension tests, etc) regularly - say, after every 10 hours of input, for the first 100 hours."

Having an individual text make input "more" comprehensible. Having a dictionary too. Having someone helping you too...

You are not measuring "comprehensible input", your are measuring one possible sort of technique to make a text or audiobook more comprehensible in the
short run. We are talking about mastering a language, as usual.

Volte wrote:

Comprehensible input = input you understand. Incomprehensible input = input you do not understand. If you cannot tell whether or not you understand something, it explains a lot about your posts, but it's beyond me to try to explain the difference to you.

Black and white fallacy (polarization)

Yet again, comprehensible input= ambiguity.

If you listen native speakers from scratch, sooner or later you will begin to understand them. You will use whatever means: linguistic or contextual. Therefore you will always be able to use the the comprehensible input AD HOC fallacy.

Edited by slucido on 03 February 2009 at 11:08am
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reineke
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Message 67 of 129

03 February 2009 at 11:45am | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

reineke wrote:

Who cares what Krashen says or not?

Khatzumoto learns from massive interaction with the language as everybody.

reineke wrote:

I have personally learned one language and partially learned another from "incomprehensible input" without the aid of grammar books or dictionaries. It IS possible.

:-)
Very interesting. Can you talk more about this point?

reineke wrote:

I only recommend massive interaction (input+output) with the language. Isolated input (comprehensible or not) doesn't work.

While I have a few (minor) issues with Khatzumoto's overzealousness, I like the guy's determination and his slightly obsessive-compulsive personality.

He learned Japanese through massive "input" - massive output came last, when he actually hit Japan. He was fully functional by then.

Krashen - you brought him up yourself.
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slucido
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Message 68 of 129

03 February 2009 at 12:17pm | IP Logged

reineke wrote:

He learned Japanese through massive "input" - massive output came last, when he actually hit Japan. He was fully functional by then.

I really think it doesn't matter when you start with output and I don't think it's that important all this incomprehensible and comprehensible input thing. I think massive is the keyword.

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irrationale
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Message 69 of 129

06 February 2009 at 6:02pm | IP Logged

I just want to say that this thread has inspired me to listen to Mandarin talk radio to improve my abilities. So, bickering aside, thank you to all the thoughtful posts here and the useful information, articles, etc.
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Cainntear
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Message 70 of 129

07 February 2009 at 3:33pm | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

Who cares what Krashen says or not?

Khatzumoto learns from massive interaction with the language as everybody.

Yeah, who cares about Krashen? He's just an experienced teacher and researcher, but Khatzumoto -- he's an angry kid on the internet!!!!

Go angry internet kids!!11!!1!!! LOLCATZ!!!!1!!!!
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slucido
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Message 71 of 129

07 February 2009 at 4:28pm | IP Logged

irrationale wrote:

Fine. I think this is the main utility of this forum = motivation to spend more time with L2.

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slucido
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Message 72 of 129

07 February 2009 at 4:34pm | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

slucido wrote:

Who cares what Krashen says or not?

Khatzumoto learns from massive interaction with the language as everybody.

Yeah, who cares about Krashen? He's just an experienced teacher and researcher, but Khatzumoto -- he's an angry kid on the internet!!!!

Go angry internet kids!!11!!1!!! LOLCATZ!!!!1!!!!

You can change my sentence.

Who cares what Khatzumoto says or not, or what says whoever. Khatzumoto learns from
massive interaction with the language.

The problem is not to find a secret method to learn languages. The problem is to find more motivation, passion and time in order to interact massively with L2.

Edited by slucido on 07 February 2009 at 4:36pm

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