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Well I guess I’m learning Russian... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes  Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 248 15 February 2009 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, switched over to the new way of studying today. Tomorrow I'll get to see how much better it will be for word retention. Even if its only comparable I'm still going to keep it because it is so much quicker.
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| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 248 15 February 2009 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Random Thoughts, Changes and Refinements
I’ve been thinking about my approach lately and there are more changes that are necessary. The overall principle is sound, it’s the method that needs further reworking. I’m going on the principle that memorizing a large block of vocabulary first is the single most effective way to go about learning Russian. Why? Reason 1: It’ll save hours of looking through the dictionary when it comes time to learn grammar. Reason 2: It is a required prerequisite to reading Reason 3: It will enable me to tackle the grammar and reading simultaneously, increasing the efficiency of learning both through the immediate application of grammar rules as they are learned. Reason 4: Using an audio based approach where I begin with the spoken word in Russian is already yielding results. I can detect the words I am reviewing when they are spoken by native Russian speakers. This is turn suggest that once I acquire a large enough vocabulary I should also be able to understand them. This is highly desirable beyond simple understanding. This will provide the means to bridge that gap between textbook Russian and actual Russian. Reason 1-4 are both practical and rational. I cannot see any reason why it shouldn’t work beautifully as a phase 1. Nothing there has to be changed. Method is where things start to get ugly. The overall method was based on some research I was reading awhile back regarding learning. It basically stated that learning speed and retention is greater when we can connect the new information to something we already know, i.e. it is easier to expand our current knowledge , rather than trying to create an entirely new independent block of knowledge. Taking the above and the comments are articles that I had read previously about Russian spelling being very straight forward it suggest that the following approach should be effective Spoken word => Written word => Word Meaning I was initially assuming that with the spelling being fairly straightforward, I could link the written word with the spoken word very quickly and that in turn would give me something to tack the meaning onto, i.e. the word meanings would no longer be independent bits of knowledge, just little expansions of what I already know. That assumption has been proven false. While yes, Russian spelling is fairly straightforward, if you’re shooting in the dark getting the vowels tends to be somewhat tricky. If I was hell bent on taking this approach its nothing that rote learning couldn’t handle. However its not about working harder, it’s about working smarter. And the smart thing to do here would be to change my approach because associating word meanings with spoken words is much easier that what I’m doing now. Another flaw in my method is that everyday I’m retesting myself on all the words over and over because I’ve yet to ace the particular word groups. I’m all for word retention but repeatedly going over words I know is just stupid. It’s not like anyone will show up here to let me know I’m failing because I can’t recall every single word I’ve learned. Reviewing comes after learning, not before and not during. This is definitely has to be changed Wow, lol this is starting to get long. I think it’s time for a smoke. I’ll come up with a better method pretty quick, it never takes long. I just need to take a step back from my step back and see if there isn’t anything else I missed. Edited by Brian_N on 15 February 2009 at 6:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 248 15 February 2009 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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Random Thoughts, Changes and Refinements – Part 2
One of the first procedural changes I’m making is to my vocabulary tracking. The previous way of tracking both spelling and meaning for the flashcard audio files is being scrapped. As I review words I can either produce both the spelling and meaning or I can’t. If I can, the word file will be removed from the learning list and I won’t have to worry about them until I do a review. If I can’t they will be reviewed again and again until I get them right. I just did a full review of the word files I’ve been studying based on the new pass/fail criteria, it’s not nearly as bad as I was expecting. Apparently reading the definitions while I was practicing my spelling helped. Practicing my spelling lol, that sounds so grade 2. Feb 15th – Day 6 – Group 1 Vocabulary Nouns – Part 1 => (40/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 2 => (27/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 3 => (15/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 4 => (5/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 5 => (10/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 6 => (2/50) => Under Review Verbs – Part 1 => (6/50) => Under Review Verbs – Part 2 => Pending Verbs – Part 3 => Pending Verbs – Part 4 => Pending Verbs – Part 5 => Pending Adverbs – Part 1 => Pending Adverbs – Part 2 => Pending Adverbs – Part 3 => Pending Adverbs – Part 4 => Pending Adjectives – Part 1 => Pending Adjectives – Part 2 => Pending Adjectives – Part 3 => Pending Adjectives – Part 4 => Pending Adjectives – Part 5 => Pending 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 248 16 February 2009 at 9:36am | IP Logged | ||
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Feb 16th – Day 7 – Group 1 Vocabulary - (+21)
Nouns – Part 1 => (50/50) => Complete Nouns – Part 2 => (38/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 3 => (15/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 4 => (5/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 5 => (10/50) => Under Review Nouns – Part 6 => (2/50) => Under Review Verbs – Part 1 => (6/50) => Under Review Verbs – Part 2 => Pending Verbs – Part 3 => Pending Verbs – Part 4 => Pending Verbs – Part 5 => Pending Adverbs – Part 1 => Pending Adverbs – Part 2 => Pending Adverbs – Part 3 => Pending Adverbs – Part 4 => Pending Adjectives – Part 1 => Pending Adjectives – Part 2 => Pending Adjectives – Part 3 => Pending Adjectives – Part 4 => Pending Adjectives – Part 5 => Pending 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rafey Newbie United States Joined 5764 days ago 24 posts - 25 votes Speaks: English* | Message 13 of 248 16 February 2009 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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I, too, am a beginner at the Russian Language. I have found in the course of having learned to read (not so much to speak) other inflectional languages that learning the vocabulary IN CONTEXT produces quicker and more permanent results. I usually just initially skim the listed vocabulary and then refer back to the list or to the glossery (and sometimes dictionay) as I read passages. I review by re-redaing passages rather than vocabulary lists. Remebering the roots of the words helps so that one does not have to focus so much on the variable endings, which you will, at any rate, pick up easily in context. My main attraction to Russian (as for other languages I have pursued) is to read the native literature. I was not entirely convinced that so-called "good" translations were as good as the original. When, at long last, I began to read such items as Homer in Ancient Greek, I was truly amazed at the difference (almost like two different books between the English translations and the original!) The original was so incredibly poetic and demonstrated such intense characterization and description and the actual meaning and intent of the original works were so very different than that of the translation. for example, the English version of The Iliad emphasizes war, lust and heroism while the original places emphasis on the stupidity and fruitlessness of misdirected action, on the long range negative consequences of such actions and especially on personal loss. Additionally, the respoonse of the individual characters to loss, victory, etc are entirely different in the orginal than in the translated versions. I have found this to be the case with all the languages I have learned since then. Even in russian, the passages I have read in my text are so very different than the translations one finds in the library. There experiences of reading these works of peotry and literature have been truly rich and inspiring as opposed to the rather flat, listless experience of working through their English versions. By the way, you might try to acquire Nicholas Brown's really wonderful Russian textbook and superior to any other have encountered. It is well worth the price !!!
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| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5928 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 14 of 248 16 February 2009 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just out of curiosity, what resources are you using to learn Russian?
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| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 248 16 February 2009 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | ||
For now, just Declan's Russian FlashCards and a webpage that gives me a nice list of Russian radio stations. http://www.declan-software.com/russian/screenshots_drfc.htm http://www.listenlive.eu/russia.html I really like the flashcards myself. 3600 Russian words with spoken audio and English meaning. At $32.00, that's less an a penny a word lol. For the radio stations, my personal favorite is Radio Mayak because they do alot of talking, so it gives me practice picking the words out I'm learning as they are spoken. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 248 16 February 2009 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | ||
Interesting approach, it does sound like it would be an efficient way to getting Russian texts under control. Actually you got me thinking, is the approach that one takes to learning a language simply a reflection of what they hope to achieve in that language? Your interest in learning Russian was for their literary works, so in your case it makes total sense to focus on the comprehension of those texts. My interest comes from a curiosity of the Russian people. I want to meet them and pick their brains lol. So for me, a command of the spoken language is my focus. Interesting, I'm so going to look through other journals to see if that holds true. Nicholas Brown's - Russian textbook. I'll keep that in mind, thank you. Edited by Brian_N on 16 February 2009 at 10:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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