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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Maxwell Diglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6683 days ago 29 posts - 29 votes Speaks: French, English* | Message 201 of 405 22 November 2007 at 12:13pm | IP Logged |
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LilleOSC,
I received a free sample CD from the www.michelthomas.co.uk website. On the sample CD are the first 2 tracks and then last two tracks from CD1 of the Arabic, Russian and Mandarin. All of them employ native speakers but in slightly different ways. In the Russian course, the teacher is a native Russian speaker so it is just her and the 2 students. Her English is very very good. In the Arabic course, the teacher is a native English speaker but she employs the help of a native Arabic speaker for you to model the pronounciation. The same is for the Mandarin course, Harold Goodman is the teacher but he employs the use of a native Mandarin speaker as your model. All 3 seem to be excellent courses and I will definately be purchasing one or two in the future. Maxwell. Edited by Maxwell on 22 November 2007 at 12:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6692 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes  4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 202 of 405 22 November 2007 at 1:59pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the reply, Maxwell. So then the 2 students in the Russian course are non-natives? Do the non-native teachers speak in the target language or in English?
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| Maxwell Diglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6683 days ago 29 posts - 29 votes Speaks: French, English* | Message 203 of 405 22 November 2007 at 2:08pm | IP Logged |
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Yes - The Students are native English speakers. The format is exactly the same as the original Michel Thomas courses i.e. they are learning the language and do make some mistakes but again these aid you.
The teachers all speak in English and in Arabic / Mandarin but use a native speaker for you to model your pronouciation on. It works very very well. The Russian course is the only one where the teacher teaches in English and speaks the target language but she is a native Russian speaker. As I said earlier, her English is exceptional and from what I heard her teaching method is as well. Maxwell. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| volapuk49 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 6268 days ago 73 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Modern Hebrew Studies: Esperanto | Message 204 of 405 24 November 2007 at 7:55pm | IP Logged |
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Maxwell has answered all of your questions, Lille OSC. I agree with what he has written.
Incidentally, I just received an e mail from the publisher, Hodder. Jeff, your plea for web-based materials, free sample downloads has gotten to the right people. The publisher will soon offer the identical CDs mentioned above by Maxwell as a free download. As soon as I hear anything more I'll post it here. Take care. Harold 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7001 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 205 of 405 28 November 2007 at 7:47am | IP Logged |
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I fell upon a Muichel thomas program of English for French speakers, that I may get for my wife. http://www.amazon.fr/Michel-Thomas-English-French-Speaker/dp /0340929855
I Downmloaded a sample here: http://www.chapitre.com/App_Themes/common/images/edito/miche lthomas/extraits.m3u?chapsid=&donnee_appel=REFGOOGLE They claim they will teach 3000 words in 45 minutes!! I suppose this is because of the cognates taht are such a crowd since the French invaded and civilised the Brittons (tongue in cheek here) Do we know how many words Mandarin and Egyptian Arabic Michel Thomas teach ? A private note to Volapuk: The michel Thomas website does not display tha English for frogs method. Maybe because harrap's is the publisher ? They put some samples online for download or streaming, but nothing for Russian, Chinese not Arabic. Edited by zorglub on 28 November 2007 at 7:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| volapuk49 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 6268 days ago 73 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Modern Hebrew Studies: Esperanto | Message 206 of 405 28 November 2007 at 8:50am | IP Logged |
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You ask how many words are taught.
I can only comment on the Mandarin course. The Foundation teaches about 100 words. I think that a similar amount will be found in the Advanced though that is not yet known since things change and we shall record the Advanced in mid-December. You will note that this is a small number of words compared to any of the other Michel Thomas courses and most other courses ( audio and printed) that attempt to teach Chinese. I am the author and co-teacher. I have adopted a teaching strategy which seems to work quite well. In a moment I will discuss it. I spent considerable time studying other approaches to teaching Chinese and the results the students obtained. I have also spoken with teachers of Chinese as well as participated in classes. In addition, I went through numerous forums and reviews to get feedback from students who had done courses. I also interviewed students some of whom have been studying for years. My conclusions were as follow ( these are only some of them): 1) The majority of students who begin to study Chinese often slack off or abandon their studies. While this is true in general of many who take up a new study especially on their own it is especially the case with the study of Chinese. In many classes ( including ones I have attended) teachers insist that students learn everything simultaneously. They get tons of vocabulary ( with almost no cognates to aid learning such as the other MT courses), poor understanding of the basic patterns, minimal help in how to actually master and recall tones which is one of the most essential skills necessary to speak and understand the spoken language, and rarely have teachers who understand the psychology of the Western learner ( all of my teachers, without exception, have been Chinese). In addition, to even confuse things more they are often ( in every one of my classes) asked to learn to read and write Chinese characters. The idea of my teachers is, ' This is how we learned as kids in China. This is how we do it. This is how you will be taught.' We are not kids and certainly, in most cases, not Chinese kids living in a 24/7 Chinese language environment. So the insistence on including character study early on, in my opinion, is not helpful for long-term results. My current Chinese teacher has a PhD in Chinese Linguistics and is very knowledgeable in his field. I have often asked him questions on Chinese grammatical patterns which he is unable to answer in a way I find helpful. The answer, ' That is a complicated matter that Chinese linguists argue over and few agree on,' is not helpful for me. Also, his insistence that the only way to learn characters is to write them out hundreds of times, reflects the traditional Chinese approach. It is not helpful for Western adults. The drop-out rate in every one of my classes has been enormous. These are not poor students. They just feel overwhelmed and under supported. In my opinion, they are being sold a bill of goods. They are being taught by pedagogical incompetents. No one in these classes ends up really comfortable in the language. Few are able to communicate well. 2) Tones are essential. Without a mastery of production and recognition of them you will never be able to speak Chinese well. They are a foundation which must be mastered early on or the building will be unstable. To my knowledge, absolutely no course except this one can guarantee this result. Many will tell you the tone and leave it at that. That just doesn't work. You need to have a special way to help the student consistently produce, understand and recall the tone for every character and combination of characters ( words). We do this. 3) Many learners seeking courses look at the number of vocabulary words offered. It is like going to an all -you -can -eat buffet and looking at the hundreds of selections. You will not eat all of them. If you do you will end up feeling sick. Yet the customer is enticed by the large number of selections. Buffet: All-you-can-eat! 500 selections! In this course you will learn all of the vocabulary. You will really be able to use it as a basis for future study. 4) The motor of any language, that which runs it, is not the vocabulary. The vocabulary is like the furniture in a house. The house, the structure, is made up of patterns that run through out the language. This is especially true of Chinese. This course emphasizes patterns. You will learn the patterns well. You will be able to communicate because you have the structure down. No other course emphasizes the patterns to this degree. You will have the edifice. Later you may choose whatever furnishings (vocabulary) you choose. However, without a well-built edifice you can't get started in any meaningful way. 5) Students memorize material. They rarely learn it. What you learn you never forget. There is no need for memorization. This course teaches you to learn. There is absolutely no memorization, drills of material, homework, exercises, tests, etc. You are given material and asked questions. You reply and get immediate feedback. It is all very relaxed. You end up learning the material. No other Chinese course takes this approach and gets this result. I have left out quite a bit but this may give you some insight into our approach to teaching Chinese and possibly also how to go about course evaluation when choosing among the myriad courses available. Neither of the students on the CDs ( a British woman and a 16 year old American boy) had ever studied the language. They were in the studio for a little over two days recording. They were forbidden to practise or review outside of their studio experience. You may listen to their progress and results and judge for yourself whether this is a successful approach to learning spoken Chinese. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| volapuk49 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 6268 days ago 73 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Modern Hebrew Studies: Esperanto | Message 207 of 405 14 December 2007 at 6:25pm | IP Logged |
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There is a Michel Thomas Fan Forum at the following site:
http://www.michelthomas.co.uk/FanClub.htm It is quite lively! So far there are 114 threads covering every subject and question. For some reason unknown to me it never comes up when I do a Google search for specific related topics. It has been going strong for over a year so there is lots of good stuff. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7001 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 208 of 405 15 December 2007 at 6:38pm | IP Logged |
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Hey harrold volapuk !
Do you happen to know anything about the "michel thomas" methods for English and french that are published for Frenchf sdpeakers with the Harrap's trademark ? Are they genuine MT methods ? I could retrieve some samples on the "Alapage" website and I was surprised to hear them spelling the English words. My gut feeling is that this impairs early learning and above all: pronunciation, but this is only from my (very rewarding) experience with Pimsleur. I'm enquiring about these English and Espagnol programs because I know french speakers who might benefit. thanks. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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