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Michel Thomas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| volapuk49 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 6268 days ago 73 posts - 86 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Modern Hebrew Studies: Esperanto | Message 209 of 405 15 December 2007 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, I do know a bit about the English program.
The English for French speakers is a verbatim reproduction of an identical program that Michel Thomas recorded many years ago. It has been re-enacted with actors playing the students and an excellent teacher. I have a copy but have not listened to more than a bit. However, a close friend went through the entire course and thinks it's very effective. The reason that the original recording was not used is because of its poor quality. The Spanish for English speakers by Michel Thomas is excellent. I would suspect that the course has been translated into French and a similar format of the English for French speakers used with modifications to make it suitable for a French student. However, I have no other acquaintance with this second course so I can say no more. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7001 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 210 of 405 16 December 2007 at 4:42am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks, Harrold !
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| Platiquemos Hexaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Panama platiquemos-letstalk Joined 7163 days ago 126 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish | Message 211 of 405 17 December 2007 at 9:33am | IP Logged | ||
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While I may have missed something (there are an awful lot of posts on this subject) the one that sticks in my mind is that Michel Thomas had very poor pronunciation in Spanish. In my humble opinion, this is fatal for learning pronunciation. Pronunciation is learned by imitation, and if the model for the imitation has poor pronunciation, the student's will be even worse.
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| mcjon77 Senior Member United States Joined 6612 days ago 193 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Egyptian), French | Message 212 of 405 17 December 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||
I still wonder why any foreign language course, in this day, doesn't use native speakers for the audio parts of their course which are taught in the target language. It reminds me of a movie with Michael Keaton called "Multiplicity", where he develops the ability to clone himself. The clones aren't exactly like him, they are only copies. When the clones try to clone themselves, the result is a copy of a copy. This new clone winds up being basically retarded. That is how I feel about good pronounciation. The further you get from native speakers, the worse your accent gets. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| volapuk49 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 6268 days ago 73 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Modern Hebrew Studies: Esperanto | Message 213 of 405 17 December 2007 at 10:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Hodder, the publisher of the Michel Thomas courses, has just come out with courses to teach Russian, Arabic
and Chinese. They all use the Michel Thomas approach. They also all use native-speakers. I am the author and co-teacher of the Chinese course, Michel Thomas Mandarin Foundation and Advanced levels. Our native-speaker, Jingtao Deng, was born and educated in Beijing. We love her and have gotten great feedback from many students who have been complemented on their pronunciation by Chinese speakers. To my knowledge, there is no course out there that effectively teaches tones which are essential for speaking Chinese. I have developed a very successful method to teach them which is used through out all of the Chinese courses. There is a very helpful review of the course on Amazon.uk by someone who has used it and describes his experience. It nicely summarizes much of the feedback we have received from students. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Michel-Thomas-Method-Mandarin-Founda tion/dp/0340957263/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197908244&sr=8-1 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7001 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 214 of 405 17 December 2007 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||
I heard some samples of MT speaking: his English is quite funny and his Italian and Spanish are badly pronounced too, IMHO. I too think that imitation is crucial to good pronunciation and that this is the reason why Pimsleur is so good: not even a written word to mispronounce from the start. My impression is that once you see the writen word, you're on the bad way to correctly say it. that reminds me of the classic first english lesson in some show in France. The english text was: I take a piece of chalk , I go to the blackboard and I write (of course, this is written onto the blackboard and pupils have to read aloud) which gives (think about Peter sellers paying inspector clouzeau) : Aye tayekeu uh piss of tchowllk, Aye go too ze (they've been told th is z) blackbowhard, end aye er.... er..... er.... wooraytuh .... Whereas if you don't see it writen it's quite simple to pronounce if you don't try and imagine the spelling. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zorglub Pentaglot Senior Member France Joined 7001 days ago 441 posts - 504 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (Written), Turkish, Mandarin | Message 215 of 405 17 December 2007 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi Mr Casteel, Imitation is said to be crucial and has to. have you ever heard about the "Mirror neuron" system of the brain ? This is an Italian discovery hat was made partly by chance (on prepared minds) in Parma. The impressing thing is than parts of the brain that were thought to be only "motor" (activating action, as opposed to sensing what's going ion in the body or outside) , are indeed active both when the ape or human does some specific gesture and when the subject (ape or human) sees someone (same species or not!) do the gesture. Activation of neurons takes place in the very same area. Even more impressive: the brain areas involved in some specific movement or act also get activated wen the INTENT of doing the movement or act is detected or guessed by the subject of the experiment. According to research on the subject this system is deeply involved in language acquisition, in empathy, in the process of guessing the intentions of others (all of which confer a strong "selective advantage" i.e. an advantage in the evolution theory context. This system may be involved in evolution gaps in the history of manking that were unexplained so far. This system may be responsible for all sorts of human behaviors including those leading to wars. To rivalry too. In keeping with this , it has been shown that autistic kids have an ill functioning mirror neuron system. It may be very important to actually SEE the person you're talking to when learning languages. I could not find any data on the topic , but most of the research on the mirror neurons has been conducted on primates, who have a very important mirror neuron (MN) system. My guess is that the MN are crucial to learn how to fly for birds, hunting learning in predators etc... There are some books on the subject, most by Italian scientists and in English. I’m waiting for one in French I ordered on Amazon... Another impressive fact is that the theory of “Mimetic desire” elaborated by René Girard from Princetown University some 40 years ago, based on the study of literature and of the important “epic” texts such as the Bible etc. , is now supported by this hard science finding. I think the MN system discovery is one that may lead to a Nobel price, given the scope of application it has. I have some documents to hand on the subject for those interested. BTW there was a paper on the topic in a nov or december issue of Scientific American in 2006, I found out (i’ve got the French version of it) Imagine: the parts of your brain that are going to be involved in doing something get activated, sort of imitating, when you actually see someone show you what you're about to learn. And this s not only visual. Edited by zorglub on 17 December 2007 at 12:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Platiquemos Hexaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Panama platiquemos-letstalk Joined 7163 days ago 126 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish | Message 216 of 405 17 December 2007 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE]To my knowledge, there is no course out there that effectively teaches tones which are essential for speaking
Chinese. I have developed a very successful method to teach them which is used through out all of the Chinese courses. [/QUOTE] I'm certainly glad to hear of a course that successfully teaches tones in Chinese. Grammar is of little importance, essentially there is no grammar in Chinese. I'm not sure whether you'd call "two piece pie" (Chinese has no plurals, if I remember correctly) grammar or not. When I was stationed in Hong Kong, I had the hundred hours of Cantonese instruction which the government provides for non-specialists (Specialists get TWO YEARS of nothing but learning Chinese!) The tones were a killer, especially since they can radically alter the meaning of a word. Thank God I never tried to learn Chinese writing! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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