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Tagalog, Arabic at French sa Bangladesh | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| m.alberto1 Diglot Senior Member Australia youtube.com/user/lan Joined 5763 days ago 218 posts - 221 votes  Speaks: Tagalog, English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 209 of 231 18 September 2009 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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ARABIC KEYBOARD:
http://www.arabic-keyboard.org/ - Fantastic resource to type in arabic easily and quickly online. ARABIC NAME: ماثيو البارتو I discovered how to write my full name in Arabic today, which was awesome, as Alif Baa is now going through alot of arabic names. I'm very excited about that, and beginning to feel more in tune with the language by personalising it for me. I'm happy at the fact that I can easily read it! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| artistscientist Diglot Groupie United States artistscientist.blog Joined 5758 days ago 49 posts - 49 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 210 of 231 19 September 2009 at 1:28am | IP Logged | |||||
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So I emailed this to John before receiving your reply:
"If I am not mistaken the proper sentence structure should be as follows: Hindi pa dumating siya. or Hindi pa siya'y dumating. I have heard people say the following but since I was in mostly nontagalog areas it would not surprise me if it were incorrect: Hindi pa siyang dumating." I just received this reply: "Nice try, but none of those sentences are correct. The correct way is hindí pa siya dumárating. (That is, the present tense [or some people call it the durative aspect, or progressive aspect] is used in a phrase meaning "[soand-so] hasn't happened yet." (Don't ask me the logic -- I never have figured out why. That's just the way it is said.) Here are some explanations. I probably talk about the phenomena a different way in my lessons, but this is tantamount to what I have in the lessons (and probably not all that easy to understand). The following i(Hindi pa dumating siya) is wrong not only because the verb form is wrong but because violates the rule that siya is "postpositive" -that is, positioned after the first full word of the predicate. It therefore should be right next to hindi -- only since there is another postpositive in the sentenc,namely pa, and since the word order is always that pa precedes all other postpositives except mo and ko, siya comes after pa but before the rest of the predicate. As for hindi pa siya'y dumating: that is wrong not only because of the verb but because ay cannot be used to set off "hindi". Ay has a very different function. Hindi pa siyang dumating is also wrong not only because of the verb form but also because hindi÷ is not linked (by linking I mean connected to the rest with na or -ng. )Most things that modify the predicate (come before the predicate) have to be linked, but hindi÷ never is. I talk about all those rules in Pilipino through Self instruction in the first two or three lessons. Much luck on your studies." I do agree with you that people have and do use: Hindi pa siya dumating. We also use and say plenty of things incorrectly in English, mostly without even knowing it. My thoughts are that John is probably right, this being his field of expertise. But if it is used, it is good to know if it is acceptable. Good idea with the google search. I repeated it with dumararing and found it on a news site as well as others. Edited by artistscientist on 19 September 2009 at 2:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| artistscientist Diglot Groupie United States artistscientist.blog Joined 5758 days ago 49 posts - 49 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 211 of 231 19 September 2009 at 1:52am | IP Logged | |||||
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So you are right about the other sentences being incorrect as well. Thanks for
your help. I was getting very frustrated trying to figure this out. So in short this is the grammar rule: THE USE OF PA IN THE NEGATIVE: For something that has NOT happened yet (Hindi pa), you must use the "present tense" form of the verb. Examples: Hindi pa siya dumarating. Hindi pa ako kumakain. Hindi pa kami pumapasok. Hindi pa tayo naguumpisa. Very useful information. You can find multiple examples of uses like this with other verbs. Edited by artistscientist on 19 September 2009 at 2:19am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| drfeelgood17 Bilingual Hexaglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6453 days ago 98 posts - 117 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog*, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Japanese, Latin, Arabic (Written) | Message 212 of 231 19 September 2009 at 2:58am | IP Logged | |||||
Nagagalak ako na meron na rin akong kausap sa wikang Tagalog. Or: Masaya rin ako kasi (or dahil) meron na akong kausap sa wikang Tagalog. Not bad! How long have you been studying Tagalog? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| drfeelgood17 Bilingual Hexaglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6453 days ago 98 posts - 117 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog*, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Japanese, Latin, Arabic (Written) | Message 213 of 231 19 September 2009 at 3:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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Eto nga pala ang pangalan ko sa wikang Arabe - here is my name in Arabic:
استيف 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| m.alberto1 Diglot Senior Member Australia youtube.com/user/lan Joined 5763 days ago 218 posts - 221 votes Speaks: Tagalog, English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 214 of 231 19 September 2009 at 3:30am | IP Logged | |||||
Oh this is great! Thank you, especially for sharing John's answer. He's right, and I think we have understood what is going on here. John is correct grammatically-speaking to use the durative aspect, and yes, it's true that I have heard many native Filipinos use the durative aspect when using Hindi pa. (Like for example, I've heard 'Hindi pa tayo naguumpisa' so many times that I feel it's correct internally) You are correct that the form "Hindi pa siya dumating" is sometimes used by Filipinos and is socially accepted (as shown through the examples I gave), although it is not grammatically-correct (similar to the common use of English, too). I like that we can help each other here, and I like that you are really determined that you even emailed the textbook authors! Let's help each other more in the future, to conquer the language! haha With John's great knowledge, as well as his keeness to help, maybe I should get his Pilipino through Self-Instruction, and then his Cornell materials - just to brush up my grammar? hmmm So you are getting the cornell materials. Once you get them, please share with me your review regarding its quality. Thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| artistscientist Diglot Groupie United States artistscientist.blog Joined 5758 days ago 49 posts - 49 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 215 of 231 19 September 2009 at 4:44am | IP Logged | |||||
DFG, Thanks for your help. So would these also work? Masaya ako na mayroon din akong kausap sa wikang Tagalog? Masaya ako na may kausap na rin ako sa wikang Tagalog? Nagsalita ako ng Tagalog noon 1997 hangang 1999 nang ako ay misyonero. I have not been able to use it much since then, hence the overall atrophy of my knowledge. Alberto has inspired me to relearn what I lost and learn much that I never knew. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| m.alberto1 Diglot Senior Member Australia youtube.com/user/lan Joined 5763 days ago 218 posts - 221 votes Speaks: Tagalog, English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 216 of 231 19 September 2009 at 5:40am | IP Logged | |||||
استيف , Pilipino ka rin nga no? At nakatira ka ba sa UK? Pilipino-Australian ako. Lumaki ako sa Australia pero pinanganak sa Pinas. Binasa ko yung profile mo, at narealise ko na translator ka pala. Kaya nga marunong ka magsalita ng maraming wika! Lalo na, yung mga wikang gusto kong aralin! Par example, le francais, l'arabe, le tagalog, l'espagnol, et aussi le portugais. Est-ce que vous avez des conseils pour moi? Parce-que j'aimerais bien appredre toutes celles langues, comme vous! (Siguro, Sumagot ka na lang sa Ingles. Para intindihan ng mga iba sa porum) J'aime beaucoup que je peux utiliser toutes les langues qui je connais avec vous. Super! at salamat! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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