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L-R experts: Isn’t it strange? | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| ChiaBrain Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5806 days ago 402 posts - 512 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish* Studies: Portuguese, Italian, French Studies: German | Message 17 of 25 17 March 2009 at 3:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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Using Assimil I find it distracts me from the audio to read the translated text with
it. This may be because they are so close (Italian/Spanish). I use the translation just to fill in the words I don't know. When listening its either with no text or with the target language text. Also, with movies: I find reading subtitles in English distracts me from hearing the audio. If I listen to the dialog without reading subtitles I will recognize many words. If I read the subtitles, I'll hear and recognize no words but I know the English translation for what was said. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6047 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 18 of 25 17 March 2009 at 10:30am | IP Logged | |||||
I've read the Oxford World's Classics version of La Bête Humaine translated by Roger Pearson, and I thought the translation was very good. He has also translated Germinal. (That's bearing in mind that I've never read the original, and can't compare them, just my impression of the quality of the writing.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Dark_Sunshine Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5763 days ago 340 posts - 357 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 19 of 25 17 March 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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Krog: I think I meant to say French translations of English books. To give a perhaps crappy example, I'm doing a bit of L-R with the French translation of Harry Potter, and whilst my French isn't good enough to comment on the quality of the writing, the translation is in many places not accurate enough to learn a lot of vocabulary, or complete phrases- I always end up checking the French words in a dictionary to get their 'real' meaning.
Maybe I should be doing L-R with English translations of French books, rather than the other way around. Edited by Dark_Sunshine on 17 March 2009 at 10:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6047 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 20 of 25 17 March 2009 at 10:55am | IP Logged | |||||
Au contraire. My personal experience with LR (with a French level of maybe B1 and a German level of maybe C1, at a guess): I listened to Le Parfum repeatedly whilst jogging during January/February, and I could pick out pairs of words in a few places, but I had no real idea what was going on. Then I read Das Parfum, and a couple of weeks back I LRd it reading Das Parfum and listening to Le Parfum 4 times over a week/weekend. If I listen to Le Parfum now I'd say I can understand about 60-70%, and I always know where I am in the story (although to be fair I've only listened to a few extracts to see how well I could understand them since I finished, being heartily sick of the book at the moment). I know that's not the apogee of the scientific method, and I haven't completed all parts of the original LR methodology, but I still think that's a good result, which corresponds to the amount of effort put in. I don't see where the idea that LR is some sort of snake oil comes from. The fact is I spent c32 hours doing it, and at a guess concentrated properly for maybe 20 hours. That may not sound like much, but if you think about how you perform a lot of tasks, be they at work, studying, whatever they may be, much of the time spent on any given task involves either thinking about something else whilst doing it, or considerable procrastination. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6047 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 21 of 25 17 March 2009 at 11:09am | IP Logged | |||||
That might be better, because in a sense, what you're reading is only there to help you understand what you're hearing. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5764 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 22 of 25 17 March 2009 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I learned a lot from Japanese dorama and films. But:
-I didn't learn much in the first fifty to hundred hours (only phrases like mendou kusai at first, then two-word-sentences) -I am a fast reader (fast enough to read the English subs of a Chinese series so quickly that I am finished before the audio starts and I can read along with the Chinese subs) -I always put my main focus on the audio and use subs only as a crutch -I stopped using subs once I understand enough to follow most of the dialogue (at 60% or so, when watching movies you can guess more from the context than when reading) I also find anime and tokusatsu series harder to understand, because every speaker has to have a 'distinct' speech pattern, so they often use dialect as and/or make their speaking voice sound weird. I needed good basic grammar and vocabulary first to be able to understand anything and therefor make out the things I don't understand and learn those. Edited by Bao on 17 March 2009 at 5:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| snig Groupie United Kingdom Joined 5888 days ago 71 posts - 79 votes Studies: Italian | Message 23 of 25 17 March 2009 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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that's some good $hit right there! lol lol glad I'm not the only one thinking L-R is not much cop!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 24 of 25 18 March 2009 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
First: I am NOT an L-R expert. I'm a happily dabbling novice. Second: I do find that watching subtitled movies/etc helps my comprehension. However, it does so extremely slowly if I have no base in the language in question; it's much more useful if I already understand almost everything and only use the subtitles to fill in occasional gaps. Third: I think aYa's already provided a reasonable set of reasons. I can come up with a set of my own, but it would only be theorizing. (For the curious, the reasons I'd think of are basically the same as aYa's: density of input (anime is nowhere near an audiobook in this regard; this has ugly penalties for the memory curve), heavy use of 'odd' language (slang, rare honorific forms, etc - probably a minor factor, but combined with the sheer smaller volume of input, probably a factor), probably no text in the target language (I find having the text in the target language to help A LOT), and bad timing - visual and auditory memory are both extremely short-term, and having no control over when the subs appear is fairly different from reading a constantly-there text). Also, the sheer amount of visuals (and, often, the extremely fast pace of action) are really quite distracting in the average anime; I tend to almost entirely tune out what I'm hearing when I watch anime, and largely do so when watching subtitled films in general (the less I understand the spoken language and the more action-packed the film is, the easier it is to tune out the spoken language). 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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