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Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds
| Message 129 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:23pm | IP Logged |
For those of you who have not experienced socialism first hand, I can assure you there's no "socialism" in Europe, you are abusing the term mightily. Europe is very much capitalistic.
The past clearly showed that socialism doesn't work and the current economical turmoil suggests capitalism taken to the extreme is no good either. Any extremity is a bad thing.
It's because of strong social policies that, amongst other things, university fees are not allowed soar in Europe and health care is better than in the US. Social policies doesn't mean "socialism". Socialism is about having no private property, business enterprise being discouraged, the government owning the industry, etc etc.
There are no doubt advantages to the American model too, but it's difficult to see them on a personal level.
Edited by Sennin on 19 July 2009 at 5:27pm
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| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 130 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:34pm | IP Logged |
Lizzern wrote:
Uhm, woah.
This is probably going to be removed if we go way off topic and back and forth so last post on this from me: Europe and Latin America, not the same. Scandinavian socialism and Marxism as you see it, not the same.
Please do come and see for yourself if you get the chance, until then don't lump our socialism together with other kinds, because what you describe has nothing to do with reality here.
Cordelia's description was excellent.
Moving on... |
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Some Scandinavians celebrate, glorify and even donate money to groups who kidnap women and children from their homes and families in my country and take them to the jungle where they are buried in holes just large enough to fit them, keeping them there for months and years sleeping and eating in their own excrement without seeing a ray of light while they await ransom. And why do the Danes and Swedes support such brutality? Because it is committed in the name of Socialism, the new European religion.
Even in your own countries, socialism leads to high unemployment, sluggish growth and decreasing standards of living.
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| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 131 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:37pm | IP Logged |
cordelia0507 wrote:
But it seems to me that many South Americans probably don't see things the same way that you do, for whatever reason. Else, why are socialists elected, and why do all these marxist guerillas exist in the first place? Who starts them, and why? Why do so many people protect and shelter them? But unlike the US, I say, what happens in S.America is none of my business, and is down to those who live there. |
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Chávez' oil money plays a big part. His discretionary budget is greater even than that available for U.S. foreign policy in the region. He buys and sells nations and presidents here like bread and water.
In addition to this, there are strongly ingrained social, cultural and historical factors that favor socialism even after painful experience has shown its inadequacy time and time again.
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian
| Message 132 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged |
Sennin, ok I agree that we mis-used the word Socialism and your experience of it is more full-throttle than anyone in Scandinavia. But the border between these concepts can be a bit unclear.
Lizz and I should have said Social-democracy but many people don't know what that is. (It's a milder form of Socialism, where there is still private enterprise). This is what the Scandinavian countries have. Usually the Social Democratic Parties are in power, but sometimes there is a break for a bit of Capitalist initiatives until people get fed up and vote back social-democrats.
When I grew up, all major infrastructure, gas, electricity, telephone, all hospitals and 99.5% schools were owned by the state. I like this better (people own it) than for them to be privately owned. Unfortunately we've got to adapt to the world around us though. A small country can not live in a bubble, so some of the social democratic institutions had to go....
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Juan, yeah, I know of the sponsoring of various red groups in South America. I don't agree with it and I have no idea why this happened. Hopefully that was in the past and doesn't happen anymore. Otherwise I think it's just as wrong for European countries to meddle in South America as it is for the US.
Edited by cordelia0507 on 19 July 2009 at 5:41pm
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| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds
| Message 133 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged |
JuanM wrote:
Lizzern wrote:
Uhm, woah.
This is probably going to be removed if we go way off topic and back and forth so last post on this from me: Europe and Latin America, not the same. Scandinavian socialism and Marxism as you see it, not the same.
Please do come and see for yourself if you get the chance, until then don't lump our socialism together with other kinds, because what you describe has nothing to do with reality here.
Cordelia's description was excellent.
Moving on... |
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Some Scandinavians celebrate, glorify and even donate money to groups who kidnap women and children from their homes and families in my country and take them to the jungle where they are buried in holes just large enough to fit them, keeping them there for months and years sleeping and eating in their own excrement without seeing a ray of light while they await ransom. And why do the Danes and Swedes support such brutality? Because it is committed in the name of Socialism, the new European religion.
Even in your own countries, socialism leads to high unemployment, sluggish growth and decreasing standards of living. |
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Haha. That's so funny, I love this thread. Tc-tc, those evil Scandinavians.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 134 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:47pm | IP Logged |
JW wrote:
JuanM wrote:
...as far as socialism not being "bad", all one has to do is look at the evil it has wrought on Latin America. Countless innocent civilian men, women and children have been senselessly and mercilessly destroyed in the name of Marx and "social justice". |
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That’s why there is such a huge Latin American Diaspora here in the U.S. Unfortunately, the U.S. is becoming just like them, or even worse, as comrade Chavez recently quipped to comrade Castro about comrade Obama:
"El presidente venezolano, Hugo Chávez, advirtió el martes a su aliado cubano Fidel Castro que el "camarada" Barack Obama podría resultar más izquierdista que ellos, luego de que el mandatario estadounidense nacionalizara General Motors..."Oye, Obama acaba de nacionalizar nada más y ni nada menos que la General Motors. ¡Camarada Obama! Fidel, cuidado y nos quedamos a la derecha", bromeَó el líder izquierdista "
"On Tuesday, the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, warned his ally Cuban president Fidel Castro that “comrade” Barack Obama could end up being more left-wing than they are, after the US leader nationalizes General Motors….”Listen, Obama just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Camrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we will be end up on the right”, joked the left-wing leader."
JuanM wrote:
To JW, you know what they say, all good things must come to an end. |
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Yes, the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.
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Sadly, not many Americans realize what kind of people are running their country today. Let me just say that the agents and sympathizers of the brutal FARC (whose actions I described above) that previously headed to Caracas and Havana for inspiration and sponsorship, now find a warmer reception and more profitable support in the halls of Congress in Washington D.C.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 135 of 177 19 July 2009 at 5:49pm | IP Logged |
Sennin wrote:
Haha. That's so funny, I love this thread. Tc-tc, those evil Scandinavians.
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You think donating money to brutal killers and torturers is a laughing matter, sir?
1 person has voted this message useful
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian
| Message 136 of 177 19 July 2009 at 6:02pm | IP Logged |
JuanM wrote:
[QUOTE=Sennin]Haha. That's so funny, I love this thread. Tc-tc, those evil Scandinavians.
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Well, I'll tell you a secret, but I may have to kill you afterwards...
The whole ecological, equality and solidarity thing is just a facade.
We Scandinavians actually have a plot to take over the world, starting with the EU.
Tall blonde women will seduce the rest of the Euros with our irresistable sugary sweet socialism (Berlusconi, Sarkozy, Brown... No a match for our girls!)
Then we'll have TOTAL CONTROL in Europe!
Amerrrikka is next of course...
Next step: The Scandi dictatorship!
Everybody will be forced to live in identical little red wooden cottages with white corners. There'll be compulsory swimming in holes in the ice every day, followed by an hour of sauna and traditional whipping with birch branches...
There'll be nothing but potatoes, fish and moose-steak to eat. Everybody will be forced to learn to speak our beautiful languages which are so superior to the unintelligible mumbling elsewhere. Germans will have to publically admit that they ripped off our languages and not the other way around as they have falsely claimed! Abba music will be on the loudspeakers everywhere.
To celebrate our victory there'll be a compulsory free love party where everyone has to drink at least 10 shots of Absolut Vodka, Aquavit or home-made potato moonshine. There'll of course be lutfisk for all (rotten fish dish).
Secondly; free healthcare whether they want it or not! Those who don't agree will be fixed up with some free lobotomy and free drugs!
Vikings will come back from the past (summoned with magical runes...) together with Tor, Odin & Freja (our cool ancient gods) to help with this worthy missions.
Logistics are no problems, we have Norway's oil and fish + Finland's Nokia phones, Swedish steel and endless wood supplies plus Volvo and Viggen fighter planes. Plus what's left of Icelands banking imperium.
The Pirate Bay is in on it too, of course, that was their sinister master plan all along.
Hehe, Mr Bond, you arrree toooo late, I'm afraid..... The plan has already started...
Edited by cordelia0507 on 20 July 2009 at 12:45am
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