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Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 145 of 177 20 July 2009 at 4:02am | IP Logged |
mrhenrik wrote:
I Googled the court case and found some information about it, yes. Six Danish people were selling t-shirts with FARC and a Palestinian liberation front names on them, donating $3 per sold t-shirt to supporters of the respective organisations in order to spark a debate on Denmark's new anti-terrorism law which was/is close to the US's PATRIOT Act-law.
First off, six guys. That's all. You blow it far beyond propotion and make a single court case in a Danish district court be the judge of all Scandinavians. Now that's just silly.
Secondly, the reason the trial took so long in the court systems and went through numerous appeals is because the law they could be convicted of needed FARC and the other group to be classified as terrorists. The definition of terrorism was unclear whether it could be applied to FARC's activities. That's why it took so many rounds in the court system. But still, they were convicted! What is the issue?
Yes, these are perhaps mad notions that these guys present, I have not studied the situation in Colombia enough to make a statement on that, but the issue is whether it's illegal or not. It's generally not illegal to be mad. What does this have to do with socialism? Socialism has no connection with courts, which are also government-run in capitalistic countries.
First I would like to say that the case has not been in the highest Danish court yet, but no, I cannot imagine how hurtful the sentence was. Still it doesn't seem like you can imagine how surreal it is to have your social-democratic society connected to Marxistic revolutionaries in Latin America. |
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I'm not going to bother with this anymore. Read the articles I cited for a haphazard glimpse into the situation, as I'm not putting together a comprehensive collection of links depicting the matter in its entirety. I'll only state that this is not an isolated case. Danish unions have also allegedly sent money to the FARC. In fact, support for them has been widespread across Europe for many, many years.
You can continue to live in your bubble and ignore what else socialism might mean other than the comfortable lifestyle you mistakenly regard as its blessing. I just thank God for living in a country that perhaps through chance and circumstance has become a bastion of Liberalism in a region increasingly dominated by socialist imperialism and authoritarianism.
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| mrhenrik Triglot Moderator Norway Joined 6079 days ago 482 posts - 658 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French Personal Language Map
| Message 146 of 177 20 July 2009 at 4:12am | IP Logged |
I can't read Spanish. I read other articles on the subject though, or does the Spanish newspaper have information others does not have?
Allegations, that's no proof for condemnations of several countries. Europe supports FARC? Where does this come from?
I've asked you to burst my bubble but seemingly you can't find anything sharp enough, a single district court case from Denmark isn't going to convince me that Scandinavia is made up of evil socialist countries who support FARC.
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| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5899 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes
| Message 147 of 177 20 July 2009 at 4:30am | IP Logged |
What can I say, you need to read Spanish because it is the language of those involved. Here is the original article by Moisés Naím on the Copenhagen Syndrome:
Colombia y el síndrome de Copenhague
If you're genuinely interested in the matter, do the research and you'll discover the web of support in Europe for the FARC. Do you read French? A good place to start would be:
Les FARC ou l'échec d'un communisme de combat : Colombie 1925-2005
Here is a recent article on the "chancellery of the FARC" where the warm reception they receive in Europe is detailed:
La 'diplomacia' de las Farc
By the way, I should clarify that the FARC were officially classified by the European Union as a terrorist organization, so when the honorable Danish judges decided not to convict their supporters, they chose to actively disregard that settled fact simply on the basis of their ideology.
I should be doing some Russian rather than preaching to the deaf here, so I'll let it rest. After talking with some of you though, I take consolation in the realization that the evil deeds of some of your countrymen are not the result of malice but a more prosaic and universal failing: ignorance.
Edited by JuanM on 20 July 2009 at 4:36am
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| mrhenrik Triglot Moderator Norway Joined 6079 days ago 482 posts - 658 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French Personal Language Map
| Message 148 of 177 20 July 2009 at 5:08am | IP Logged |
I read English and Norwegian, and understand Swedish and Danish.
Danish is also the language of those involved. Spanish is the language of one side which apparently has very strong and narrow views on this case. The first Spanish article you linked only briefly mentions the subject (checked with Google Translate). What the EU classifies FARC as should be unrelated, the court was Danish and if you ask me the entire concept of EU is barking mad. I'm glad we're not a member.
Still, I don't doubt that FARC sucks, I don't question that some Europeans support FARC - what annoys me is that you use the moves of a Danish district court to call all Scandinavians Marxist supporters. That's just wrong. You can't just completely dismiss a complex ideology such as social-democracy by the actions of six Danes and a Danish district court.
How do you connect this all to socialism? How does the actions of a Danish district court dismiss the entire idea of Scandinavian social-democracy? This makes zero sense.
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| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5909 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese
| Message 149 of 177 20 July 2009 at 8:49am | IP Logged |
Just leave it, guys, he's already made up his mind about who we are. Those of us who live here can see the flaws in his arguments.
I sympathise with the situation in your country, Juan, although I don't really know or understand everything that's gone on.
Just because our system isn't perfect and some people make mistakes, doesn't mean that our system doesn't work very well in many ways. It does. You'd see that too if you could see it for yourself.
Don't accuse people of ignorance so easily, when all we've done is describe the reality most people here experience. Note that none of us have said "all socialism is good", just that ours works pretty well, that is all.
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| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5924 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish
| Message 150 of 177 20 July 2009 at 6:11pm | IP Logged |
cordelia0507 wrote:
JuanM wrote:
[QUOTE=Sennin]Haha. That's so funny, I love this thread. Tc-tc, those evil Scandinavians.
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Well, I'll tell you a secret, but I may have to kill you afterwards...
The whole ecological, equality and solidarity thing is just a facade.
We Scandinavians actually have a plot to take over the world, starting with the EU.
Tall blonde women will seduce the rest of the Euros with our irresistable sugary sweet socialism (Berlusconi, Sarkozy, Brown... No a match for our girls!)
Then we'll have TOTAL CONTROL in Europe!
Amerrrikka is next of course...
Next step: The Scandi dictatorship!
Everybody will be forced to live in identical little red wooden cottages with white corners. There'll be compulsory swimming in holes in the ice every day, followed by an hour of sauna and traditional whipping with birch branches...
There'll be nothing but potatoes, fish and moose-steak to eat. Everybody will be forced to learn to speak our beautiful languages which are so superior to the unintelligible mumbling elsewhere. Germans will have to publically admit that they ripped off our languages and not the other way around as they have falsely claimed! Abba music will be on the loudspeakers everywhere.
To celebrate our victory there'll be a compulsory free love party where everyone has to drink at least 10 shots of Absolut Vodka, Aquavit or home-made potato moonshine. There'll of course be lutfisk for all (rotten fish dish).
Secondly; free healthcare whether they want it or not! Those who don't agree will be fixed up with some free lobotomy and free drugs!
Vikings will come back from the past (summoned with magical runes...) together with Tor, Odin & Freja (our cool ancient gods) to help with this worthy missions.
Logistics are no problems, we have Norway's oil and fish + Finland's Nokia phones, Swedish steel and endless wood supplies plus Volvo and Viggen fighter planes. Plus what's left of Icelands banking imperium.
The Pirate Bay is in on it too, of course, that was their sinister master plan all along.
Hehe, Mr Bond, you arrree toooo late, I'm afraid..... The plan has already started...
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LOL!! I would welcome a Scandinavian takeover of the US, maybe your politicians could show our politicians how to actually plan and run effective government programs. One suggestion though, don't just broadcast ABBA nonstop, there are plenty of other great Swedish musicians I'd also love to hear more of.
Edited by mick33 on 20 July 2009 at 6:13pm
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| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5898 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German
| Message 151 of 177 20 July 2009 at 6:59pm | IP Logged |
LOL!!!! and the aurora? I would like to see it.
ABBA's ok, but not all the time.
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| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7015 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map
| Message 152 of 177 21 July 2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged |
Let's cool it on political discussion guys, otherwise the thread will be closed.
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