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6 year old girl FLUENT from TV!! | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Pyx Diglot Senior Member China Joined 5741 days ago 670 posts - 892 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 33 of 67 17 July 2009 at 9:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's bull. What he says is to enjoy the work and nobody argues with that. It's still much and hard work. Go follow your own advice. You may start here for example, where he says exactly that: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/whats-its-like-in- the-beginning-and-you-dont-know-jack-or-how-to-watch-japanes e-tv Reineke, jfyi, he's quite aware of that and addresses that somewhere. I can't be bothered to find the link now, but he essentially said he believes Krashen introduced i+1 only not to crush the motivation of the learner when experiencing target language material, who otherwise might understand hardly a word. If you're motivated enough as is, so Khatz, 'i' doesn't really matter. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6017 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 34 of 67 17 July 2009 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You'd be even more sceptical if you'd read the paper. Guess what the girl's mother did for a living...?
Although she goes on to state that "The family does not have any English-speaking relatives or friends, and Laura has never visited an English-speaking country", we still see we're not talking about a pedagogically uninformed family. Now here's the killer:
She's trying to play it down, but the important message here is that there is no evidence that Laura had any command of English grammar before the introduction of directed tuition from her mother, a language professional of unspecified type with access to various materials and guides, which I'm quite certain she will have read. The conclusion drawn by Jylha-Laide that the material "may have been adequate means to lead to Laura's acquisition of a foreign language" is entirely untested, as in the 15 years since publication, I am not aware of this ever having been repeated in a controlled experiment and as has already been stated, Laura had considerable interactive contact with English through her mother. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5915 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 35 of 67 17 July 2009 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It would be interesting to see what would happen if somebody actually tested this, in a completely controlled environment - great points there Cainntear about what this sort of anecdote (anecdotes are not data) actually proves, if anything. I guess it's kind of like isolated stories in other circumstances too - "my neighbour's sister had the same illness as you and she took this thing, right, and now she's all better! and then the second cousin of my colleague at work tried the same thing and it worked real good so that means it definitely works!"
So what would happen if somebody was put in a situation where the only input they ever got in a language was TV (and possibly music additionally) but no dictionary, no grammar instruction whatsoever, no chances to practice and nobody around them who spoke the language, no help at all, just the words they hear and context context context? Thoughts anyone? To be quite honest, I don't know how we'd start learning - the initial stream of input would be overwhelmingly nonsensical if we had no basis whatsoever and didn't know a single word in the language (assuming we didn't have the help of cognates to learn), and we'd probably mis-learn a bunch of things and make faulty assumptions left right and centre. But then some people who have posted in this thread have done it successfully... That's pretty cool, guys. I'm not sure I could stomach that many hours of TV though. Liz 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ashley_Victrola Senior Member United States Joined 5712 days ago 416 posts - 429 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Romanian | Message 37 of 67 17 July 2009 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well, yeah. But that's also the same logic that people might say about new age medicine. And if there's already efficient methods that have been proven, why not focus on those?
It's very easy to say, once science has proven something to the contrary that science doesn't matter at all. I mean, just like people don't effectively learn language by watching tv is true in the same way people don't learn how to walk by watching others do it. Sure there may be SOMEONE who thinks maybe you can and they want to try it and that's fine. But it isn't good of them to tell others it works and is a great method unless there is scientific evidence OR at least they have learned to walk perfectly fine doing it. And Lizzern: it isn't EXACTLY the same but as I said earlier there are studies with children that can hear born of deaf parents and the parents were trying to get their kid to learn English using TV. There's various studies and various ways they watched tv but in the end, they did not reach a high or even really middling command of English when that was their only contact. When they had tutors however and an interactive partner, they were able to catch up. I just think the OP is focusing on the wrong part of his "method". I think any success he has is largely based on the interactive component. And of course motivation. However only time will tell to what level it even works. Edited by Ashley_Victrola on 17 July 2009 at 7:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| healing332 Senior Member United States Joined 5626 days ago 164 posts - 211 votes | Message 38 of 67 17 July 2009 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
As USUAL Ashley you are lost in the woods...What this girl has done is ONE PART of what I have said to do.. along with the non translated readings and Speaking from day one!!!!. You are right about one thing you are a SKEPTIC PERIOD and you are limiting people with your silly limiting comments..Thank Goodness the majority of people reading these post will be as bored with your replies as I am and will learn their language the way I have outlined! As for Wiki.You think I wrote Wiki? if you do not believe the quotes on wiki maybe you should read her book which I have! but you ofcourse will provide some limiting answer to put people (to sleep as usual) as to why things of course will not work.. As for Dr.SCHWARTZ i bet you did not read that book either?..he speaks of the UNLIMITED amount of things the adult brain can do and we are just scratching the surface.. of course he is not speaking of adults like you with a limited mind I do not look up a word because I find they will come right back to me in my movie disecting. I am quite comfortable wait for the word to come back later in context or my movies. this way I own the word not the dictionary!!! Also as for misrepresenting people who gives a crap who i said did the tv method as along as we can see the results of it.. Keith...Mike..Jack..or Obama..who care who did it lets see HOW they did it.... You are very limiting and that is fine but do not spread your limiting beliefs to others.. Edited by healing332 on 17 July 2009 at 9:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| healing332 Senior Member United States Joined 5626 days ago 164 posts - 211 votes | Message 39 of 67 17 July 2009 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I would never call anyone an Amateur..i like this forum and have learned from it !.. I mentioned that when Roger Bannister made the 4 minutes mile a reality..it became easier for others to do it...now it is not a great feat for even a high school kid to do this ..before him people were told that it was impossible.. My point is OTHERS LIMIT YOU! it is called the ASHLEY EFFECT Edited by healing332 on 17 July 2009 at 9:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6453 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 40 of 67 17 July 2009 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I have already mentioned that I have learned two languages from scratch this way. It's possible to learn a language only by watching TV but this does not necessarily make it the best way or the only way to learn a language. I find that television is a very powerful ally in language learning from the very beginning of the learning effort. I don't believe this is a good reason to burn all my books. I am against "fun at all cost" if one has a practical goal in mind. Most people's idea of fun is very narrow. However, being able to follow Chinese dramas without any effort is a feat and further skills can be built on top of this should the learner choose to do so. About subtitles - it is possible to even figure new Chinese characters from the context powerful stuff indeed but not a reason to go gaga over it. The word science is used and abused when it comes to language acquisition and teaching methodologies. Kato has been misinterpreted by everyone here. She used both conventional and unconventional means to study foreign languages. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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