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Must have languages for polyglots? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| ZenBroon Tetraglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5697 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan, French Studies: Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Written), Dutch, Portuguese | Message 73 of 149 21 February 2009 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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English is the only 'must have language', obviously. As for the others, taking a Euro-centric view (can't speak for other regions as I don't live there)...
French is a great cultural language; films, books, the country itself, but hard. Spanish is cool because it's straightforward to learn and native speakers often don't have English. Of course once you have French and Spanish, Italian and Portuguese come very easily, so there we have five languages and we've only just started... German is an interesting case. I know they all speak English allegedly but actually I find it difficult to get by comfortably in German-speaking areas without the basics. So add German. Beyond Europe, if you want to go to the eastern side Russian is absolutely essential. Russians tend not to speak other languages, and it is also a route into Polish and other Slavic tongues. On my list to learn! To the south, Arabic is really important for all sorts of reasons (and for a 'polyglot' an interesting example of a non IndoEuropean language with a beautiful script). Beyond that, simply learn the languages you need or want to use, a bit pointless otherwise. I've learned Catalan, some Dutch and even had a go at Panjabi (another wonderful script), because that's what the people I live with speak, oh and Scottish Gaelic because I am Scottish. Scottish Gaelic by the way is the 'hardest' language I've studied so far, including Arabic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Raincrowlee Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 6644 days ago 621 posts - 808 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Indonesian, Japanese | Message 74 of 149 22 February 2009 at 1:29am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hmm. I would say a "true polyglot" (without ever defining what that is) would know, in addition to his/her native language at least five languages. Three would be related languages, so this person would begin to understand what it means for languages to be related. And when I say related, I mean that in a loose sense, so Chinese and Japanese would be 'related,' even though they don't belong to the same family.
In addition to the related language, they would know at least two unrelated languages. So one could know English, Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Russian and German. Or French, Spanish, Latin, Arabic, Bulgarian and Hebrew. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6792 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 76 of 149 23 February 2009 at 12:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
From m-w.com:
And the definition of "several" is (emphasis mine):
Of course, "fewer than many" still leaves problems. Here's the definition of "many" (again, emphasis mine):
I don't think anybody deserves much credit for speaking and writing their own native language(s), so we can say a polyglot is someone who speaks or writes several languages other than their native tongue(s), several meaning both distinct and separate, and more than one but fewer than "a large...number." So two languages can count, so long as they are separate and distinct. What defines separate and distinct? I believe mutual intelligibility in both spoken and written forms. So Cantonese and Mandarin wouldn't be "separate and distinct" enough (being written the same), and neither would Hindi and Urdu (due to so many linguists categorizing them as dialects of the same language). So according to this anyone who has learned two or more languages besides their native language(s) counts as a polyglot. There isn't any requirement of which languages should be included. There are no "must-haves." Any two which are separate and distinct from each other and the native language will do. Any other definition, IMO, is too subjective to be worth anything. Edited by OneEye on 23 February 2009 at 12:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5742 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 77 of 149 24 February 2009 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't really think there are any 'must-haves' other than English because that is today's global language and it's highly unlikely to change anytime soon. It all depends on your personal interests and motivation or your location. You don't have to know eight languages spoken on all different continents to be a dedicated polgylot. I think you can be considered a dedicated polyglot if you aim at speaking just two or three foreign languages with native fluency just fine.
Anyway, that's my opinion of course. If you want to be a hardcore polgylot I'd say go with Mr Arguelle's scheme and learn your civilization's classical languages (or at least one of them), the most important or relevant languages in your country or to your broader culture and then add a few exotic ones out of interest. Of course that might not work for everyone since many feel that learning dead languages aren't worth the time. And they may be right of course, depending on their personal situation. I would agree there are some languages out there that are very important and make excellent choices for any 'dedicated' polyglot though. But not all of them should be learned! That wouldn't make sense to me and I don't think it's really worth the effort because you'll probably never reach a near-native proficiency in any of them at the same time and be able to maintain that. But anyway, from my point of view these languages are the following: 1. English 2. French 3. German 4. Spanish 5. Italian 6. Arabic 7. Russian 8. Mandarin 9. Latin, Greek, Hebrew But apart from English and French, I can't say that any one of the other languages is a must-have. Just study whatever interests you or those languages that you can really use. Now as to what languages one ought to study to be able to get around no matter whether you are, I think one should learn these: 1. English (North America, Oceania, Europe, Africa, Middle East, Internet & global business, South Asia) 2. French (Europe, North America, Africa, Middle East, perhaps some parts of Asia) 3. German and/or Russian (large part of Europe, Central Asia) 4. Spanish (Spain, the Americas) 5. Norwegian (Antarctica - just kidding!) You might add Arabic to this list but you should be able to get around in the Arab-speaking world with French or English just fine. In the case of Turkey and Iran you might even be able to use German. Hindi is a nice and interesting language but it's really not worth learning unless you wish to travel in India or Pakistan extensively and want to communicate with locals in a non-business situation. Perhaps I should have included Mandarin but I'm not sure. I suppose that for the average tourist or businessman it's not necessary to know the language but on the other hand many are learning it and it does give you access to a huge country with over a billion people. Unlike India, English is not an official language in the PRC. Then again in southern China people speak Cantonese, in Hong Kong people speak English well and in Malaysia or Singapore you won't be needing any Chinese. So I've left it out for that reason. Comments and criticism are welcome! jbbar 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5742 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 78 of 149 24 February 2009 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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By the way, some people would argue that I'm being eurocentric in my suggestions. I disagree. The reality is that "European" languages are simply the most useful ones from a global perspective. So it's simply a matter of being realistic - not "eurocentric." Hindi, Persian, Korean, etc are all awesome languages but really not a must on a global level. Then again they may be indespensible for others, e.g. intelligence services or those who have strong ties with the countries where these languages are spoken. Context is everything.
jbbar Edited by jbbar on 24 February 2009 at 5:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6389 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 79 of 149 24 February 2009 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I've heard "bilingual" and even "trilingual" but never "quadrilingual" or anything higher than that. It sounds plain stupid. So does this whole polyglottery business. "Polyglot" strikes me as something others should say about you, preferably after you die. Kinda like "erudite". It's embarrassing.
Dick Hudson, a linguist at University College, London, coined the word "hyperpolyglot" to refer to people who are able to speak six or more languages fluently. You guys need a reality check. Related languages being "too easy" etc. - sure if you aim to develop half-ass passive understanding and some basic communicative skills (which are btw a great thing to have). jbar, people only really need their mother tongue. Everything else depends on what you want to do with your life. The languages of countries claiming Antarctica are English, Spanish, French and Norwegian. Edited by reineke on 24 February 2009 at 6:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5742 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 80 of 149 25 February 2009 at 10:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I did add that I was just kidding about Norwegian, right? Having said that, I pretty much agree with what you're saying. Lots of people need a reality check. Why should you be considered a hyperpolyglot if you know the basics of 28 languages but you can't speak any of the languages you're studying fluently and at a near-native level? I would say such people must be obsessed with languages and probably have way too much time on their hands. That's how I've come to look at it. Businesses and governments don't need people who speak crappy or limited English or German or Japanese or whatever language. They need people who are qualified and advanced speakers of these languages and hold a degree in them or a certificate at least. Why study six or even just four foreign languages if you can hardly use them in reality and never reach a near-native level? Every language you add to your list will require regular maintenance so you don't forget the language. Can anyone manage to practise several languages at the same time? Don't think so. Of course it can all be fun and enriching to dabble into various languages but it doesn't make sense doing that all your life. God knows what great opportunities you've wasted because you decided to dabble into Thai, Swahili and Czech instead of perfecting your French or Russian! What I've presented in my previous message is simply my idea of what languages make excellent choices for language learners and will be useful all around the world. I fully agree with you that it all depends on a person's own life. I repeat what I said: context is everything. jbbar Edited by jbbar on 25 February 2009 at 10:36am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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