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’Must have languages’ for polyglots? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5742 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes  Speaks: English | Message 89 of 149 12 March 2009 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Sure, you're correct in pointing out that not ALL European languages are useful or important in East Asia. But the topic was about must-have languages for polyglots and I was looking at it from a global perspective. My point was never to say that ALL European languages are useful *everywhere*. So I don't care that in Asia French or Spanish are not useful. The fact is that English is still much in demand and the most studied language in virtually every Asian country. So again, from a global point of view this to me indicates that European languages in general are still the most important and useful ones and may be the best choice for the aspiring and global-minded polyglot to study so he can get around pretty much everywhere. Plus, I did add to my original message that maybe Mandarin and Arabic would fit the list as well. So please don't insinuate I have no regard for the importance and relevance of non-European languages. By the way, German is studied by many Japanese so apparently there must be some demand for it as well, in view of Germany's huge economy and the ties with Japan. jbbar Edited by jbbar on 12 March 2009 at 9:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| crackpot Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6243 days ago 144 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 90 of 149 15 March 2009 at 1:08am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Sorry Suriya, I have to come in on jbbar's side on this. We all know English is the number one language. Further, one can get pretty far on 5 of the 6 inhabited continents with just English, French, Spanish and Portuguese. That only leaves one continent where the major languages are Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Arabic, Persian, etc, etc. True English may not get you far in Japan, but I am willing to bet it will get you farther than Arabic, Persian, Hindi or even Mandarin. Even Mandarin, Asia's number one language won't get you anywhere in India, Russia or southwest Asia.
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| icing_death Senior Member United States Joined 5803 days ago 296 posts - 302 votes Speaks: English* | Message 91 of 149 15 March 2009 at 4:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Yes but if you know English that means you'll be able to communicate with a high percentage of european language speakers. Another european language is not your best choice if your goal is to communicate with the most people you possibly can. If that isn't your goal, then please ignore this post.
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| Suriya Tetraglot Newbie Thailand Joined 5732 days ago 34 posts - 38 votes Speaks: Thai*, Laotian, English, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French, Welsh | Message 92 of 149 15 March 2009 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Well to be honest I'm wasn't talking about the topic. The actual point I was arguing about was this line: "The reality is that "European" languages are simply the most useful ones from a global perspective." posted by jbbar. Because:
1) I define the word 'global' as the entire world or at least most places on earth. But 60% of the world population is Asian, thus it is not global, just in many countries because you're missing more than half of the world! 2) Regarding point#1 if you accept my definition, English is the most common language yes but doesn't mean you would be able to get around in most places in Asia with English. I don't argue that 'English would be very useful language to know when in Asia (and not only Asia)', but it's certainly not 'English is the most useful language to know in most of Asia'. Later he corrected that 'My point was never to say that ALL European languages are useful *everywhere*.' But from his post that I first replied to didn't sound like that. 3)English might come in handy, but certainly only English and not 'European languages' in Asia. It's a small difference between 'language' and 'languages' but it changes the whole idea. English might be the biggest foreign language in Asia, but you'll find that the second place after English is rarely a European language. Thailand > Mandarin/Cantonese/Japanese, Laos > Thai, Japan > Mandarin/Korean, And in India, they're just far too busy learning each others' languages which are more than 1,600. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5760 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 93 of 149 18 March 2009 at 9:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Your view of reality is largely a European view. In my ASIAN reality, there is no truly global language. Just what do you mean by useful? and in what way useful? Each of the 6+ billion people have their own idea of what is a useful language. And what is a global perspective on usefulness anyway? There might be 1+billion speakers of English, including 2nd language speakers with rudimentary knowledge of English, but how many percent of the world's population is that? Roughly 15%! Is that what you call global? Which other European language would you call useful from a global perspective?
There is no "must language" on a global level. Each language is useful in its own sphere of influence or specialized field, culture, etc and highly dependent on the person, and 75% of the world's populations are in Asia and Africa, so your ignoring 75% of the global opinion on whatever language usefulness there is. And concluding that the value systems and opinions of 25% of the world ("the West") represents what is global perspective/view is nothing but Eurocentric. And don't equate usefulness with the number of people studying it, for that is dictated by communication needs, wants, prejudices, and personal circumstances. Even English's usefulness will be temporary. History shows that once a superpower is replaced, the dominance of its language is replaced. Surely you can't claim that US hegemony will be eternal.
Precisely what do you mean by properly educated? Are you implying that people who doesn't speak English not properly educated? I would bet that not even all of this forum's non-English speaking Europeans, North and South Americans would agree to that. Please remember that proper education, however you define it, is independent of whatever language is spoken. And those countries are not obligated to change anything.
Your "us" have indeed a Eurocentric view and clinging to it. Why is there an increase in people studying Chinese in US and Asia? And English is not the most important language (no language is except the native language of each of us), its just the most convenient language, at this point in time. Ditto for other European languages, in a lesser degree.
If its not "useful everywhere" then how can you say "so he can get around pretty much everywhere"? Your inflating the usefulness of English too much and other European languages. Each and every language is equally important in each own sphere, there is no truly globally useful language, but some languages will be more convenient in some situations. Edited by Raчraч Ŋuɲa on 18 March 2009 at 9:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6389 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 94 of 149 18 March 2009 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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An international language is an internationally accepted means of communication. David Crystal defines global language as a language that has achieved a “special” status globally.
English is by far the most useful language globally. Some 300 million Chinese are studying English and some 40% of world’s new books are published in this language. Certain European languages have reached “international” and “important” status. A couple of Asian languages have also reached this status. French and a few other European languages have more weight in Asia than most other Asian languages outside of their home countries. French is studied from Lebanon to Tahiti. In India the most studied languages after English are French and Spanish. Of course, if English doesn’t work and you don’t speak the local language you’re sort of screwed in most places. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| john234 Newbie United States Joined 6319 days ago 15 posts - 15 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 95 of 149 18 March 2009 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I do not believe that there are any languages, including English, that one must know to be a "true" polyglot. However, I do believe that English is becoming a global language.
I can think of one field in which English already is the true global language and is actually required as of 2008: international aviation. If you are the Korean pilot of a flight from Seoul, South Korea to Tashkent, Uzbekistan, you will communicate with the Uzbek air traffic controllers in English. That is not a hypothetical case, it actually happens. Every day pilots and air traffic controllers from all over the world speak to each other all over the world in English. Of course there are other languages that are useful in their own spheres and some of those spheres are very large, but I cannot think of an example of actual global use of any other language. That is not meant as a value judgment, it is just the way things are. I do not foresee the Koreans and Uzbeks in my example using Mandarin or Arabic to communicate with one another anytime soon. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Mr. Speaker Diglot Newbie United States Joined 7052 days ago 28 posts - 32 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 96 of 149 27 March 2009 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I think we're all debated out about what I "true polyglot" is, so I'll just post my
must haves: 1.Russian 2.Mandarin 3.German 4.French 5.Arabic 6.Spanish 7.Greek 8.Turkish 9.Farsi 10.Swedish 11.Portuguese I could go on, but if I only manage to get those I'd probably be content :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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