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�Must have languages� for polyglots? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5841 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes  | Message 129 of 149 08 April 2009 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
First of all, let me reiterate my belief that regarding languages, learning them through and through is the only approach I place any value in. Second, regarding accessibility, what I suggested was that while I can learn as much as I wish about French and German literature, history and society in English and Spanish, I cannot do the same for Ethiopian or Tibetan or Cambodian culture, for which direct contact with their languages is indispensable. The point you make about German (and French) though is indeed one of the main reasons why I wish to learn them, as I hope they might provide me a window into so many other cultures whose languages I cannot possibly master. I was therefore bitterly disappointed when I couldn't locate a single copy of German or French translations of several original works by Muslim medieval philosophers that interest me greatly, which perhaps tellingly do exist and are readily available in Spanish. Edited by JuanM on 08 April 2009 at 7:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6389 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 130 of 149 09 April 2009 at 7:32am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know how much in depth you want to research Cambodia but there are an awful lot of books about this country and Southeast Asia in French. If one needs to soak up the culture through the language this also goes for French regardless of the number of books written about France in English. If you want to research things thoroughly and master these languages "completely" you will need to spend years on a single country and culture - especially the remote ones. I am not sure French and German would add much to this burden. A Spanish speaker trying to save time by not learning French just doesn’t make sense. In many cases you might have a much easier time finding translations and studies about a certain country, culture or area than original material. Another point – you seem to be picking and choosing here and there without firmly committing to anything. After you fall in love with a particular culture you can specialize further. If you've lined up 30+ languages, French and German will still prove useful since there are some 5,000 languages out there. I've written about this before but... Looking at Unesco's index translationum and eliminating the main Western languages as sources (English, French, Spanish, German and Italian) the following languages offer the highest number of translations for the majority of the remaining world's languages. 1 French 2 German 3 English 4 Spanish 5 Japanese 6 Russian 7 Italian As you can see Spanish ranks high so it's no surprise you were able to find these translations in Spanish (you live in Colombia?) I am not sure if you were referring to books written in Arabic. The best choice for books written in Arabic is ... Arabic however looking at the number of translations available the next best choice is French. You need several major languages to feel some freedom. Dr Emil Krebs used the following languages as springboards into other languages and cultures: German, English, French, Russian, Chinese, Greek, Italian, Turkish, Latin, Spanish, Arabic and Dutch. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| agimcomas Pentaglot Groupie Canada Joined 6401 days ago 69 posts - 77 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Portuguese, German Studies: Mandarin, Korean | Message 131 of 149 09 April 2009 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hi, Here is my list:
1) English - the language of commerce, science, technology and education nowadays 2) French - the language of a large part of Europe and a large part of Africa, with lots of culture attached to it, and helpful for strengthening your English vocabulary (yes!) 3) Mandarin - A language you must speak if you want to understand how a language may be written with logograms (i.e. characters), and how tones alter meaning, and on top of that it is very useful! If I were to restrict myself to three languages, these would be. However, I'll extend my list a little further. 4) Spanish - if you're interested in Latin America and/or Spain, and a very useful and widely spoken language, even in the US. 5) Arabic - will grant you access to a very ancient and important culture, and very widely spoken. 6) Russian - a very important and somewhat mysterious culture from a Westerner's perspective These are the languages that are the most interesting and useful from my point of view. I left out other important languages that I am interested in, such as German, Portuguese and Swahili, for the sake of brevity. Regards, Agustin 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5841 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 132 of 149 09 April 2009 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
I wonder what that list would look like if you restricted the entries to books in print. For someone who lives in another continent and must rely on ordering through the Internet, the book world in France and Germany is a wasteland. A great amount of very important and valuable books in German and French are scandalously out-of-print with few or none used copies available for ordering. It does me no good whatsoever that wonderful translations of Ibn Bājjah's works might exist tucked away in the Bibliothèque nationale de France where I'll never be able to access them. On the other hand, I can readily obtain a couple of works from the above-mentioned philosopher in Spanish here. For someone without physical access to France's or Germany's public and academic libraries, the usefulness of their languages for study and research is vastly overestimated. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| cathrynm Senior Member United States junglevision.co Joined 6067 days ago 910 posts - 1232 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Finnish | Message 133 of 149 10 April 2009 at 2:37am | IP Logged | |||||
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You guys make the mistake of assuming bigger is better. I'll never be a polyglot myself, but hypothetically, why not go for at least one obscure or dying language -- like maybe one of the Native American Indian languages, or something from Africa. For bragging rights, wouldn't you want at least one language that practically nobody studies?
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6389 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 134 of 149 10 April 2009 at 4:33am | IP Logged | |||||
If you find French and German books difficult to track down why all this talk about Tibetan, Amharic etc? Sorry, no great treasure troves at the BNF concerning this philosopher - a few books in Arabic, Spanish and a couple in French. You can buy the French ones online. Worldcat.org, a global catalog of library collections covering over 10,000 libraries worldwide comes up with only 130 hits. 36 in Arabic 13 in Spanish 5 in English 2 in French The reason for this is likely due to this: Spanish-born Muslim philosopher and first known exponent in Spain of the Neoplatonic tradition of intellectual mysticism.... Google books hits per language when searching for books mentioning Avempace. 743 in English. 742 in French 678 in German 642 in Italian 626 in Spanish including books like Geschichte der Philosophie des Mittelalters No free translations unfortunately (I didn't look hard) but it's only a matter of time. In Italian (plus Arabic) http://www.libreriadelsanto.it/libri/9788817127578/il-regime -del-solitario.html Index translationum The database contains cumulative bibliographical information on books translated and published in about one hundred of the UNESCO Member States since 1979. For Arabic, after French the best choice for translations is Spanish, then English and German. You're basically confirming the statistics and my point that one needs several major languages and if one wants to dig really deep, preferably the original language. Edited by reineke on 12 April 2009 at 6:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5841 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 135 of 149 10 April 2009 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's why I don't actually pursue those nor many other languages which otherwise I'd be greatly interested in, Arabic being among them. Anyhow, there are many, many egregious instances of valuable works simply not being available in German and French anymore. The decrepit state of book publishing today in these countries is particularly stinging, since they are (or were?) such cultural behemoths. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6607 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 136 of 149 11 April 2009 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
Decrepit??? Germany and France are among the best places to find even "exotic" books! Many valuable works are simply not available in Spanish or English... No language covers it all and you actually might need several languages if you're looking for very specialized literature. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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