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Deteriorating quality of methods | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7259 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes  | Message 1 of 11 12 January 2005 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Does anyone else agree with my observation that language learning methods across the board are getting worse, not better, as they are supposedly improved? Compare any method from the 60's or 70's with its updated contemporary replacement. Older Assimil and Linguaphone tapes were spoken at more natural speeds, with fewer gaps. Older books had far more vocabulary, and far more intelligent content. You might quibble with the grammar-translation methods of older TYS or Langenscheidts books, but at least they explained the future tense as the future tense instead of saying "in this chapter you will learn how to say that you will do something," and translation certainly teaches more than the silly games they now provide. I would be very curious to know if there are any serious language lovers out there who actually feel that they are better served by the newer offerings.
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| manna Groupie Kyrgyzstan Joined 7261 days ago 94 posts - 112 votes | Message 2 of 11 13 January 2005 at 7:52am | IP Logged | ||
I disagree  . I'd say that there's so much more published in this area - and much of it is not of good quality. Sometimes I feel like everyone and their dog publishes a language course. However, saying all this, there are good courses available - courses take take into account the scientific developments.
Maybe the best books/courses are those that have the linguistic expertise combined with that of real teaching experience: that is courses not written only by linguists or only by teachers/enthusiasts. To sum it up, the gems are out there, but you'll have to hunt for them 
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| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7379 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 11 16 January 2005 at 6:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I am not old enough to remember the books of yore, but it is possible that many books are published today for the sole purpose of being sold, with no real intention of being effective for the learner. A sure sign of that is that you find scores of beginners programs for many languages, but very few for advanced learners. Does this mean none of the people who bough the beginner programs make it as advanced students?
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| manna Groupie Kyrgyzstan Joined 7261 days ago 94 posts - 112 votes | Message 4 of 11 20 January 2005 at 3:59am | IP Logged | ||
That's exactly what can be observed with most language learners... few ever make it into intermediate or even advanced levels... As for deteriorating, I've been thinking about this a bit more. A great deal of what is published today is for quick money and therefore can be used to support your view. Many of these courses are wahsed down so as not to be too big a challenge to the learner. My objection really was that amongst this sea of not so great stuff being published, there are a few new gems. I've probably been focusing on these, since I just disregard the rest .Edited by manna on 20 January 2005 at 4:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7259 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 5 of 11 20 January 2005 at 11:26am | IP Logged | ||
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You're an optimist, manna, an optimist. The percentage of gems among the schlock is decreasing, not increasing. The administrator's point is right on: the great majority of students who begin studying a language never ever get anywhere with it. At the university in Korea where I taught for nine years, 300+ students began studying Chinese and Japanese each year - six semesters later, there were about three students in each advanced class, or literally about 1 in 100 that ever got anywhere with these languages, which must be considered "easy" for them, and this is without measuring their degree of active ability versus scholastic performance, and without taking their longer term retention into consideration.
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| manna Groupie Kyrgyzstan Joined 7261 days ago 94 posts - 112 votes | Message 6 of 11 22 January 2005 at 4:17am | IP Logged | ||
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You know what, I think you're right. (thought even more about it). You could *prove* your point relatively easily. Take a random sample (as large as you can) from the past and the present. Then come up with a number of criteria and assign accordingly. I'm thinking about matters of consistency, density of information etc.
The alternative approach is to study how courses that get updated many times (e.g. Headway for English) change over time... I'd be really interested if you (or anyone) could do this in a serious manner. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7259 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 7 of 11 12 April 2005 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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This issue came up again some three months later now, and after rereading our original postings, and especially manna's last, I took more time than I could afford out of my afternoon schedule to compare older and updated offerings by the same publisher. I didn't need to *prove* this to myself - I already knew it - but it was good to find that it could be proven so easily. Really, just go to any library or language laboratory or used bookstore and take just about any two versions of any language manual - the newer one will be more "user friendly," but less sophisticated, and have far less content. Sigh.
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| jradetzky Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom geocities.com/jradet Joined 7210 days ago 521 posts - 485 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, GermanB1 | Message 8 of 11 12 April 2005 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think the declining quality of language courses is related to the declining quality of education in general. Somehow rigour has been given up if favour of teaching the masses. Technology has also played its part because it is assumed that just because language courses are delivered via computer technologies they're better than they used to be. Attention has been shifted from the contents to the means of delivery.
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